VSE March Competition: DCO Synths!

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DCO competition! Are you participating?

Yes
16
48%
No
4
12%
Maybe...?
13
39%
 
Total votes: 33

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Em Pe Ge
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Re: VSE March Competition: DCO Synths!

Post by Em Pe Ge » Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:31 pm

i'm in with the JX-8P or Alpha Juno 1..

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Re: VSE March Competition: DCO Synths!

Post by Stab Frenzy » Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:32 am

dustinh wrote:
moodorf wrote:I might contribute to the contest, though I have been having something of a writer's block lately.... :(
That's all the more reason to do it! Seriously, one of the biggest cures to writers' block is to give yourself a deadline and finish something. It's better to finish a less than perfect song than never to finish anything at all.
Exactly what I was going to say to that.
Ned Bouhalassa wrote:I'll pass, since I haven't got a DCO synth anymore. But for the next month, some suggestions:
[snip]
You win the comp, you get to make suggestions. ;)

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Re: VSE March Competition: DCO Synths!

Post by Swayze » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:09 am

Count me in. Just made some drum sounds on the 3P for the first time. Now comes the hard part...composing.

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Re: VSE March Competition: DCO Synths!

Post by ninja6485 » Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:04 am

Quick Ned, buy something with a DCO!
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

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Re: VSE March Competition: DCO Synths!

Post by zoomtheline » Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:27 am

I guess this is confirmation, The Welson Syntex is DCO. I'm in.

First paragraph from the service manual:
The Syntex is a musical instrument made up from an analogic
part (VCF and VCA - POWER SUPPLY and ADSR) and from
a digital part. SMALL KEYBOARD WITH MEMORY - CODE
CONVERTER - CONTROL BOARD AND OSC. 1 AND OSC 2. -

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Re: VSE March Competition: DCO Synths!

Post by ejlif » Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:13 pm

commodorejohn wrote:After talking about it with GuyaGuy, we agreed that there was enough interest in the possibility of a DCO-themed competition to go ahead with that, so here we go. The aim is to make good use of synthesizers with digitally-controlled analog oscillators - they get a bad rap, but a lot of them are really quite capable. The rules:

1. One synthesizer, DCOs only
It's permissible to use something with DCOs as one of multiple sound sources (i.e. the DSI Tempest,) so long as the digital/sampled sources aren't used. (A noise generator that isn't technically part of the oscillator is also permissible, because how else are we supposed to do drums?)

2. Two effects
You may use up to two specific effects. These can be onboard effects like the chorus on Roland's Junos and JXes, or separate units; your call.

3. 3/2014


The contest will run for the month of March; entries are due in before midnight, April 1st, CST. I'll set up a Soundcloud account for the contest a little later.

Any questions?
So any amount of chopping or sampling is allowed as long as it all originates from the one synth?

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Re: VSE March Competition: DCO Synths!

Post by commodorejohn » Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:22 pm

I really don't know how I feel about that. I know we did have one entry in the previous contest that someone did by sampling patches from the synth, but to me that feels like missing the point - enlighten me if I'm missing something, but I can't even think of a good reason to do that, especially since pretty much every qualifying synth for this contest has patch memory, so it's not like the modern analog compo where you might've had trouble recreating a specific patch if you wanted to alter a part later on.

I'm tempted to say "no sampling," but let's hear what GuyaGuy thinks first.
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Re: VSE March Competition: DCO Synths!

Post by ejlif » Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:28 pm

commodorejohn wrote:I really don't know how I feel about that. I know we did have one entry in the previous contest that someone did by sampling patches from the synth, but to me that feels like missing the point - enlighten me if I'm missing something, but I can't even think of a good reason to do that, especially since pretty much every qualifying synth for this contest has patch memory, so it's not like the modern analog compo where you might've had trouble recreating a specific patch if you wanted to alter a part later on.

I'm tempted to say "no sampling," but let's hear what GuyaGuy thinks first.
I guess I don't mean so much as sampling but you have some serious power over just the audio in Live 9. Can the audio track data be manipulated. I have only the juno 106 as an option to use and it doesn't really make drum sounds but with the power of live 9 it wouldn't be a problem to create drum sounds from the 106. Just wondering how much use we can make of our DAWs audio manipulation options vs just recording the data straight to the track as it came from the synth and no manipulation there after.

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Re: VSE March Competition: DCO Synths!

Post by ninja6485 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:53 pm

Exactly - you just beat me to it. If you say no sampling, you also have to say no audio manipulation in a DAW. Meaning no cutting, pasting, layering, etc. If you're using ableton live which warps what you record to a tempo, it's the same as using timestretch. If you record 4 bars but only decide you want to use the first two so you shorten the clip and past another one after it it's just like truncating and looping in a sampler. The same with cutting an audio file into small segments and doing stutter effects in a DAW. And then what do you do when people create drum kits from their synth? You have to paste each hit as an audio file instead of loading them into a sampler and using it like a drum machine? How would you tell the difference even? The same goes for layering two different recordings. Or if I paste a second version of an audio file a few beats after my original and cut the highs with an eq to create a delayed effect, how will you know whether I used the software eq + daw or a sampler? And what about people who aren't even using DAWs in the first place, and compose music on samplers?
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

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Re: VSE March Competition: DCO Synths!

Post by Jabberwalky » Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:57 pm

Wait, recording rules aside...why can't you manage drum sounds out of the 106? It has a noise generator and self oscillates. Figure it out! I bet it'd sound good. The Poly61 is a f**k bastard though. My drums will be very bloopy.

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Re: VSE March Competition: DCO Synths!

Post by commodorejohn » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:05 pm

ninja6485 wrote:Exactly - you just beat me to it. If you say no sampling, you also have to say no audio manipulation in a DAW.
No you don't. But even if you did, I'm just trying to wrap my head around how this is in any way necessary. I can understand simple stuff like looping a particular take of whatever pattern (at least with synths that don't have MIDI - there are some in the DCO era, after all,) but it seems to me that if you're relying on serious munging of the audio you're kind of missing the point of a synth competition. I dunno; like I said, let's see what GuyaGuy has to say on the subject.
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Re: VSE March Competition: DCO Synths!

Post by ninja6485 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:26 pm

All a sampler does is organize the sound that goes into it, and modern DAWs have exactly the same functions. Neither produces sounds on their own. The only difference is one is software, and one is hardware. Now if you want to say no using the mangling functions in hardware, you have to say no mangling functions in software too; which includes cutting and pasting audio, timestretching audio, loading drum sounds into a program for use as a drum sampler, layering a sound with different effects, layering a sound a few beats after itself, etc. This is because this is all sample mangling is! And again, what about people who do not use a DAW? They have to be able to do those things in their sampler to make a composition. It also means you can't make up for not using a delay or a chorus by using audio mangling, which sucks when you're limited to 2 effects.
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

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Re: VSE March Competition: DCO Synths!

Post by Aaron2 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:56 pm

zoomtheline wrote:I guess this is confirmation, The Welson Syntex is DCO. I'm in.

First paragraph from the service manual:
The Syntex is a musical instrument made up from an analogic
part (VCF and VCA - POWER SUPPLY and ADSR) and from
a digital part. SMALL KEYBOARD WITH MEMORY - CODE
CONVERTER - CONTROL BOARD AND OSC. 1 AND OSC 2. -
Really? A synth from 1974 has DCOs? I guess that means you can enter with your Roland SH1000, too, eh? :lol:

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Re: VSE March Competition: DCO Synths!

Post by commodorejohn » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:16 pm

ninja6485 wrote:All a sampler does is organize the sound that goes into it, and modern DAWs have exactly the same functions. Neither produces sounds on their own. The only difference is one is software, and one is hardware. Now if you want to say no using the mangling functions in hardware, you have to say no mangling functions in software too; which includes cutting and pasting audio, timestretching audio, loading drum sounds into a program for use as a drum sampler, layering a sound with different effects, layering a sound a few beats after itself, etc. This is because this is all sample mangling is!
We may be thinking of different things when we're talking about chopping and mangling here. Mock-delay, layering, and the like I can understand (heck, I've used them myself in previous compos) - that's all just basic multitrack audio editing. I just got the impression that what was being asked about was some kind of serious mangling of the tones as produced by the synth, ala genres like "glitchcore" or whatever - and I just don't see why you would do that in a competition devoted to showcasing the sound of a particular synthesizer.
Aaron2 wrote:Really? A synth from 1974 has DCOs? I guess that means you can enter with your Roland SH1000, too, eh? :lol:
SH-1000 is VCO. But the description from the Syntex manual zoomtheline quoted certainly sounds like a description of a DCO (it could also describe a divide-down architecture, but as far as I can tell from the demos I've seen the Syntex is monophonic...?) and it's not like there's anything about DCOs as a concept that you couldn't do in 1974 - it's just a digital counter driving the reset on an analog oscillator. You could do that with 1964 technology, if you wanted.
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Re: VSE March Competition: DCO Synths!

Post by Aaron2 » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:33 am

commodorejohn wrote:
Aaron2 wrote:Really? A synth from 1974 has DCOs? I guess that means you can enter with your Roland SH1000, too, eh? :lol:
SH-1000 is VCO. But the description from the Syntex manual zoomtheline quoted certainly sounds like a description of a DCO (it could also describe a divide-down architecture, but as far as I can tell from the demos I've seen the Syntex is monophonic...?) and it's not like there's anything about DCOs as a concept that you couldn't do in 1974 - it's just a digital counter driving the reset on an analog oscillator. You could do that with 1964 technology, if you wanted.
But nobody did it in 1964. Or in 1974, either.

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