will the mini brute replace the pro one/sh 101

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Re: will the mini brute replace the pro one/sh 101

Post by ninja6485 » Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:30 pm

CZ Rider wrote:I think it is written in stone on some mountain top "No synthesizer is a replacement for another". :lol:
Image
Exactly. cheers! :drinks: Competition is a corporate rouse. For an artist in the world of synths, there is no such thing as competition: only cooperation. I'll never understand why some sit around scheming up reasons why the synths they hate are successful. It's always anything but their usefulness! Anything but admitting they have simply taken their preference too far.
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

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Re: will the mini brute replace the pro one/sh 101

Post by synthroom » Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:19 pm

CZ Rider wrote:I think it is written in stone on some mountain top "No synthesizer is a replacement for another". :lol:
That's what I tell my wife every time I walk in the door with another synth...
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Re: will the mini brute replace the pro one/sh 101

Post by meatballfulton » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:09 pm

People are too hung up on the word "replace" :banghead:

How about "sensible alternative" ;)
I listened to Hatfield and the North at Rainbow. They were very wonderful and they made my heart a prisoner.

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Re: will the mini brute replace the pro one/sh 101

Post by ninja6485 » Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:41 pm

I like what you're trying to do meatball. I would probably just say that it's one possible alternative? Saying it's the sensible alternative; or even a sensible alternative, could very easily carry with it the implication that the other alternative is not sensible.
Just to elaborate, I consider buying my sh-101 to have been a very sensible decision. Not only has it been a major work horse in my setup, but it's making me money as it appreciates! I should have bought two... well, I should have bought two 808's. Plus I'm using the instrument my favorite artists used, which is fun and inspiring. How cool is that? It's not just something that does what I want it to do good enough, it sounds exactly the way I want it to sound. That's the difference between a song that's good enough to make it onto your mp3 player, and your favorite songs. And if it was used on your favorite songs, through it you get an awesome, tangible link to your favorite music. It doesn't mean you can't make great music with a different instrument: it means you've made an investment with your desired ends in mind that corresponds with your interests, and that's gosh darn sensible! :D
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

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Re: will the mini brute replace the pro one/sh 101

Post by calaverasgrande » Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:57 pm

I think there is a lot to celebrate with the recent revivival of mainstream analog synths.
while I have had lapses, I strive to be synth user , not a collector. With most if not all of the original analog synth brands resurfacing as new, the only rationale for buying a vintage synth these days is the collector status.
My T3 sounds easily better than a T2, and is much more reliable than a T1 or T2.
My X0X has many more capabilities than the original 303, and I like the sound better than a 303 as well (I'm not even remotely into acid/trance).
My only vintage synths that I regularly use now are a KPR77 and an SH09. And those may go on the auction block when I get another modern Moog and one of the analog Elektrons.
Though the KPR handclap is soooo good I will have a hard time parting.

Reliability isn't just about gigging. Nothing puts me out of my music making frame of mind worse than all my patches being dumped, or the dreaded, 'why is there no sound? It was just working yesterday!?'.

Will a Phatty replace a Rogue? Maybe not exactly, but I'll take the lack of knob per function over black goo death and rare chips.
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Re: will the mini brute replace the pro one/sh 101

Post by ninja6485 » Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:39 pm

But don't you see that for most vintage enthusiasts, it's not Just the status of having, but functionality in the context of creating music that's supported through exploring interest in vintage gear, acid or otherwise? Collecting is only one small element. The real boon is the music itself, and emersion in the creative process as a hermeneutic. It's the plant that grows out of the seed of being a synth user when sown in the context of music creation. :)
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

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Re: will the mini brute replace the pro one/sh 101

Post by commodorejohn » Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:00 pm

ninja6485 wrote:But don't you see that for most vintage enthusiasts, it's not Just the status of having, but functionality in the context of creating music that's supported through exploring interest in vintage gear, acid or otherwise? Collecting is only one small element. The real boon is the music itself, and emersion in the creative process as a hermeneutic. It's the plant that grows out of the seed of being a synth user when sown in the context of music creation. :)
Precisely. I'm not going to begrudge anybody their preference for new equipment, and I'm quite glad that we're seeing an analog revival with quality new and reissued synths, but there's just so much in the world of vintage gear that isn't part of that, and it's inspiring to me regardless of whether I might theoretically see improved reliability by getting something new. None of the new gear I've heard has the kind of classy, restrained, lush sound that my JX-10 does, for example. I can sit for hours and play around on that beast, and it's very inspiring to me; why would I ditch that just to try and find what I already have in some newer product?
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Re: will the mini brute replace the pro one/sh 101

Post by calaverasgrande » Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:25 pm

I used to be really into this philosophy that I was making 'New" music with "old" gear.
I actually went through a period of time where I forbade myself from using anything not from the 80's or earlier.
My reasoning was that the capabilities of the old drum machines, synths and sequencers hadn't ever been fully exploited due to stylistic restrictions. People tend to stick to a genre.
Then I got over my messiah complex and decided I wasn't going to immanentize the eschaton by iterating through all possible permutations of synth, bassline and beatbox.

I also think I've developed a strong aversion to collector like behavior when I got in my 40's and suddenly could afford most gear I wanted, but also couldn't really find a lot of time to gig out.
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Re: will the mini brute replace the pro one/sh 101

Post by commodorejohn » Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:34 pm

Well good for you, then.
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Re: will the mini brute replace the pro one/sh 101

Post by meatballfulton » Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:14 pm

My post will start with a sad story. I was at my local Guitar Center today to try the MicroBrute. I was struck by the poor selection of keyboard instruments...no Roland, no Korg (not even a microKorg!), just Yamaha XF, MOX and MOXF but only in 88 key versions. As of today...the end of March 2014...you cannot find an MS20 mini, a MiniBrute, Volcas or Bass Station II in any suburban MA GC store.

The downtown Boston store has some of these in stock, but I am too lazy and cheap to take the drive, pay the tolls and parking just to window shop. I waited almost two years before a Kronos showed up on the floor here.

It used to be that there were local music stores that did carry current synth equipment, one had the Yamaha franchise and stocked all the DX/TX and SY/TG models while three others had Roland, Korg, Ensoniq, Casio, Sequential, etc. So during the MIDI explosion of the 80s it was easy to drop into a shop and try out all the latest and greatest. If it was made between 1981 and 1991 I've played it.

But GC ran all the small stores out of business. Over the last decade GC stopped stocking synths, I guess because they weren't moving enough of them. Now the only way I can check out new gear is by ordering it online and then returning it if it sucks. This is progress? Maybe if you are into buying restocks and refurbs ;)

OK, so I played the MicroBrute for an hour and was impressed with what $300 will buy. I was mainly curious about the filter and as soon as I cranked the res I heard the out of control screeching that my old pAiA 9700's used to put out. I have to say it, there is a reason that many vintage multimode filters do not self oscillate, it's because they aren't stable at max res. The biggest disappointment however is the lone EG. The maximum times are way too short! They are spec'd as 2.5 seconds for A and D and 5 seconds for R. This was something that bugged me about the MFB Kraftzwerg, too...I need longer EG times. Give me 10 seconds at least (like the MiniBrute) and even longer would be better! The rest of the synth was as I expected after all the YouTube demos and I do agree that as a first analog on a tight budget it's a great deal.

So although I will not be buying one, at least my curiosity is satisfied ;)
I listened to Hatfield and the North at Rainbow. They were very wonderful and they made my heart a prisoner.

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Re: will the mini brute replace the pro one/sh 101

Post by calaverasgrande » Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:50 pm

meatballfulton wrote: The biggest disappointment however is the lone EG. The maximum times are way too short! They are spec'd as 2.5 seconds for A and D and 5 seconds for R. This was something that bugged me about the MFB Kraftzwerg, too...I need longer EG times. Give me 10 seconds at least (like the MiniBrute) and even longer would be better! The rest of the synth was as I expected after all the YouTube demos and I do agree that as a first analog on a tight budget it's a great deal.

So although I will not be buying one, at least my curiosity is satisfied ;)
Thanks for bringing that up!
That is one of my pet peeves about a LOT of contemporary synths. They all seem to be in an arms race to have the fastest shortest envelope. Which must be fantastic sounding on 32nd note arpeggios when you can pull the attack back just a tad.
But if you are playing Numan-esque stuff or trying to make a faux string patch it really bites when the envelope runs its full course in 1 bar.
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Re: will the mini brute replace the pro one/sh 101

Post by Ashe37 » Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:35 am

meatballfulton wrote:My post will start with a sad story. I was at my local Guitar Center today to try the MicroBrute. I was struck by the poor selection of keyboard instruments...no Roland, no Korg (not even a microKorg!), just Yamaha XF, MOX and MOXF but only in 88 key versions. As of today...the end of March 2014...you cannot find an MS20 mini, a MiniBrute, Volcas or Bass Station II in any suburban MA GC store.
Meanwhile, my local GC is largely controllers, Motifs, MOX/MOXF, and KronosXes... and the synths Casio came out with last year... a couple Rolands... and in the back, a Minbrute, MS-20 mini, microkorg, etc. The second nearest one has a similar selection, with a Slim Phatty and a Minitaur added. (I lve roughly equidistant between two GCs)

And then GC Hollywood had the large killer selection. Access stuff, DSI, etc, along with the stuff mentioned above. Have seen a Mood Model D and a Prophet 5 and an OB-X there as well.

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