Is the ms20 mini a good entry point into modular synthesis?

Discussions about anything analog, digital, MIDI, synth technology, techniques, theories and more.
User avatar
calaverasgrande
Expert Member
Expert Member
Posts: 1038
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:29 pm
Gear: MG1, MP201, MF101, MF102, Taurus 3, SH09, KPR-77, Streichfett, Dark Energy, X0Xb0x, Dronelab, Synsonics Drums, Machinedrum, Modular.
Band: N.S.V.
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Is the ms20 mini a good entry point into modular synthes

Post by calaverasgrande » Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:18 am

Automatic Gainsay wrote:
meatballfulton wrote:
monolith wrote:all due respect Marc, but that came across quite cuntish
First time in history someone has suggested Marc is ever less than a total gentleman??!! :agree:
You know, I showed up at VSE as a goofy light-hearted synth-lovin' fool. I learned the hard way that the tone at VSE isn't goofy or light-hearted. It is often amusing, jocular, and fun... but there is a tone here that isn't... well, particularly accepting of foolishness.

A lot of things have changed here in the last few years... things have really calmed down, and whereas it used to be a pretty staunch bastion of fact without tolerance for bullshit... now things are getting a bit lax. My adopted tone has not. Of course, any time I say anything that people disagree with, I get pretty seriously addressed. But apparently, if I deal the same way, I'm "cuntish."

Well, whatever. The people who know me in person know that I'm actually still a pretty goofy light-hearted guy. But I am seriously about synthesis, education, and the history of synths and electronic music. I get pretty intense in regard to casual inaccuracy and revisionist history. If that makes me "cuntish," then so be it.

Meatball, I'm kind of saddened that you feel this way about me.

P.S. The fact that I wasn't addressing the OP is quite evident if you actually read my post and compare it to the posts of others previous to mine. Or, you can' think me "cuntish." TEVS, YO
I get that a lot myself on some other boards.
People kind of mistake earnestness and genuine passion for a subject with being cuntish, smart-aleck or know it all.
I guess we all need to relax and give others some credit. We aren't all gifted writers, so communicating by clumsy sentences, on the internet, will lead to misunderstandings.

On the other hand it is fun to be contrarian and stir the pot. After all these are just message boards/forums. Not the flipping New York TImes. I appreciate people who genuinely attempt to convey information and be helpful, but some folks are just take it too seriously! (and I mean this about boards in general, not just this one).
I've seen some boards go down in political flame wars. That is a large part of the reason I stay off most of the Macintosh boards. Too many Liberal V Conservative grudge matches. Too many Trolls!
We can at least be thankful that in this dusty corner of the internet people just get butt hurt over DCO vs VCO.
And we dont have overzealous moderators dinging people for 'swearing'.

But again seriously, dude says 'entry level modular' and nobody else says Dark Energy?
(no I am not trying to sell my 2nd DE)
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with all thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave

User avatar
EmptySet
VSE Review Contributor
VSE Review Contributor
Posts: 474
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:33 am
Gear: MS20, x0xb0x, JV-1080, JX-3P, JX-8P(PG800), Juno Stage, VFX-SD, VL-1, ARP Omni I, D-50, DW6000
Location: Illinois, USA

Re: Is the ms20 mini a good entry point into modular synthes

Post by EmptySet » Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:22 am

I wouldn't let the Hz/V stuff get you too bogged down if you fancy an MS20 of either type. You can build a convertor using ten dollars of parts that even Radio Shack sells. Seriously, it cost me $10 and that included a case.

Image

monolith
Expert Member
Expert Member
Posts: 1172
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:37 am

Re: Is the ms20 mini a good entry point into modular synthes

Post by monolith » Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:57 am

Automatic Gainsay wrote:
P.S. The fact that I wasn't addressing the OP is quite evident if you actually read my post and compare it to the posts of others previous to mine. Or, you can' think me "cuntish." TEVS, YO
What is TEVS YO? :lol:

All I'm saying is that I can see how the OP was irked by your comment. I do agree with what you said however.

User avatar
pflosi
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 3620
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:14 pm
Gear: more than 150 characters...
Location: zürich
Contact:

Re: Is the ms20 mini a good entry point into modular synthes

Post by pflosi » Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:34 am

EmptySet wrote:I wouldn't let the Hz/V stuff get you too bogged down if you fancy an MS20 of either type. You can build a convertor using ten dollars of parts that even Radio Shack sells. Seriously, it cost me $10 and that included a case.

Image
That, my friend, is a v-trigger => s-trigger conversion; not a v/oct => hz/v conversion :thumbright:

The MS20 ESP can convert anything to s-trigger. Trigger only though, no gate.

The modulation rather than hz/v inputs on the MS20 take v/oct, though not very stable.

And +1 for the Dark Energy as a nice entry into modular. But I think the MS20 is not so bad either - yeah, a lot of patch points are missing, but you can do a lot of fun stuff with just a few additional modulation sources, some mults, mixers and VCAs. Add in some of the audio manglers and it gets really funny. Basically I think all semi modulars are a good entry into modular. Also stomp boxes with expression pedal inputs (careful with those though).

User avatar
calaverasgrande
Expert Member
Expert Member
Posts: 1038
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:29 pm
Gear: MG1, MP201, MF101, MF102, Taurus 3, SH09, KPR-77, Streichfett, Dark Energy, X0Xb0x, Dronelab, Synsonics Drums, Machinedrum, Modular.
Band: N.S.V.
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Is the ms20 mini a good entry point into modular synthes

Post by calaverasgrande » Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:01 pm

pflosi wrote:
EmptySet wrote:I wouldn't let the Hz/V stuff get you too bogged down if you fancy an MS20 of either type. You can build a convertor using ten dollars of parts that even Radio Shack sells. Seriously, it cost me $10 and that included a case.

Image
That, my friend, is a v-trigger => s-trigger conversion; not a v/oct => hz/v conversion :thumbright:

The MS20 ESP can convert anything to s-trigger. Trigger only though, no gate.

The modulation rather than hz/v inputs on the MS20 take v/oct, though not very stable.

And +1 for the Dark Energy as a nice entry into modular. But I think the MS20 is not so bad either - yeah, a lot of patch points are missing, but you can do a lot of fun stuff with just a few additional modulation sources, some mults, mixers and VCAs. Add in some of the audio manglers and it gets really funny. Basically I think all semi modulars are a good entry into modular. Also stomp boxes with expression pedal inputs (careful with those though).
thats what I thought but the diode threw me off.
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with all thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave

phesago
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
Posts: 1097
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:56 pm
Real name: Douglas
Gear: tech nine, bag of coke, an erection and a hostage
Location: Arizona
Contact:

Re: Is the ms20 mini a good entry point into modular synthes

Post by phesago » Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:21 pm

Automatic Gainsay wrote:
meatballfulton wrote:
monolith wrote:all due respect Marc, but that came across quite cuntish
First time in history someone has suggested Marc is ever less than a total gentleman??!! :agree:
You know, I showed up at VSE as a goofy light-hearted synth-lovin' fool. I learned the hard way that the tone at VSE isn't goofy or light-hearted. It is often amusing, jocular, and fun... but there is a tone here that isn't... well, particularly accepting of foolishness.

A lot of things have changed here in the last few years... things have really calmed down, and whereas it used to be a pretty staunch bastion of fact without tolerance for bullshit... now things are getting a bit lax. My adopted tone has not. Of course, any time I say anything that people disagree with, I get pretty seriously addressed. But apparently, if I deal the same way, I'm "cuntish."

Well, whatever. The people who know me in person know that I'm actually still a pretty goofy light-hearted guy. But I am seriously about synthesis, education, and the history of synths and electronic music. I get pretty intense in regard to casual inaccuracy and revisionist history. If that makes me "cuntish," then so be it.

Meatball, I'm kind of saddened that you feel this way about me.

P.S. The fact that I wasn't addressing the OP is quite evident if you actually read my post and compare it to the posts of others previous to mine. Or, you can' think me "cuntish." TEVS, YO

you know, I was only offering ways to learn about modular without having to go into too deep(financially speaking, as once you go down that rabbit hole you're pretty much kissingg all your extra money good bye), as having read your post I feel like it might have been inspired by mine lol In the spirit of learning, I figured those were reasonable resources to at least get a feel for it. Even if you werent directly replying to me, or what I said, I dont think i care too much about tone(on forums).

Also, STOP BEING SUCH A d**k GEEZ :lol: :lol: dont hurt mah feelers yo

zoomtheline
No Longer Registered

Re: Is the ms20 mini a good entry point into modular synthes

Post by zoomtheline » Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:59 pm

Damn, heavy threadage!

User avatar
Walter Ego
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 897
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:17 pm
Gear: Various noisemakers hidden around my home and classroom. And a great quantity of caffeine.
Band: 12"VS
Location: Near Boston

Re: Is the ms20 mini a good entry point into modular synthes

Post by Walter Ego » Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:31 pm

Online forums are weird. I try not to accuse anyone of anything, and not take things too personally. From my limited perspective, though Marc (Automatic Gainsay) may use colorful language, he really knows what he's talking about. I have learned a ton of very interesting facts and principles from his fact-checking and mythbusting on this forum. And it's often entertaining to see him go after BS statements and historical inaccuracies. I've been on the other side of it. It's taught me to be less sloppy in the assertions I make. Unless I'm reading him totally wrong, non of what he says is meant to be personal. He's a great resource and his review vids are great. Also that tongue-in-cheek ARP 2600 video he just posted is pretty awesome.

Also, his username is AUTOMATIC GAINSAY. Just sayin...

Okay, I'll go wipe the brown stuff off my nose now... :mrgreen:
Walter Ego
seamonkey wrote:I nominate this for STUPIDEST THREAD ever in the history of the internez. ;)

User avatar
ninja6485
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 2766
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:13 pm
Gear: Virus Ti, Jx-8p, Juno 60, Radias, Maschine, 101,303,606,707,727,808,909, odyssey, mirage, akai s5K/s2K/s1k, drumtraks, E6400ult, M1R, rx5, fizmo,d50
Band: Lyra, The Sun Worshipers
Location: Exton/ westchester

Re: Is the ms20 mini a good entry point into modular synthes

Post by ninja6485 » Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:52 pm

Automatic Gainsay wrote:
meatballfulton wrote:
monolith wrote:all due respect Marc, but that came across quite cuntish
First time in history someone has suggested Marc is ever less than a total gentleman??!! :agree:
You know, I showed up at VSE as a goofy light-hearted synth-lovin' fool. I learned the hard way that the tone at VSE isn't goofy or light-hearted. It is often amusing, jocular, and fun... but there is a tone here that isn't... well, particularly accepting of foolishness.

A lot of things have changed here in the last few years... things have really calmed down, and whereas it used to be a pretty staunch bastion of fact without tolerance for bullshit... now things are getting a bit lax. My adopted tone has not. Of course, any time I say anything that people disagree with, I get pretty seriously addressed. But apparently, if I deal the same way, I'm "cuntish."

Well, whatever. The people who know me in person know that I'm actually still a pretty goofy light-hearted guy. But I am seriously about synthesis, education, and the history of synths and electronic music. I get pretty intense in regard to casual inaccuracy and revisionist history. If that makes me "cuntish," then so be it.

Meatball, I'm kind of saddened that you feel this way about me.

P.S. The fact that I wasn't addressing the OP is quite evident if you actually read my post and compare it to the posts of others previous to mine. Or, you can' think me "cuntish." TEVS, YO
Ok, so it should be obvious why people are reacting to your post. You begin with 'ugh,' s**t on the very idea of the post, and conclude with for 'f**k's sake.' You've got to know that that's not going to come across like someone who's serious about synthesis or education. There's no innacuracy or revisionist history going on in entertaining the idea that someone could start getting into molular synths via the ms-20. I'm all for being a bit snarky at times, especially if it's witty or funny, so I'm not coming down on you for doing it, but just realize that regardless of your intent, this is how your message is coming across. ;)
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

User avatar
pflosi
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 3620
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:14 pm
Gear: more than 150 characters...
Location: zürich
Contact:

Re: Is the ms20 mini a good entry point into modular synthes

Post by pflosi » Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:05 pm

calaverasgrande wrote:
pflosi wrote:
EmptySet wrote:I wouldn't let the Hz/V stuff get you too bogged down if you fancy an MS20 of either type. You can build a convertor using ten dollars of parts that even Radio Shack sells. Seriously, it cost me $10 and that included a case.

Image
That, my friend, is a v-trigger => s-trigger conversion; not a v/oct => hz/v conversion :thumbright:

The MS20 ESP can convert anything to s-trigger. Trigger only though, no gate.

The modulation rather than hz/v inputs on the MS20 take v/oct, though not very stable.

And +1 for the Dark Energy as a nice entry into modular. But I think the MS20 is not so bad either - yeah, a lot of patch points are missing, but you can do a lot of fun stuff with just a few additional modulation sources, some mults, mixers and VCAs. Add in some of the audio manglers and it gets really funny. Basically I think all semi modulars are a good entry into modular. Also stomp boxes with expression pedal inputs (careful with those though).
thats what I thought but the diode threw me off.
It's even the exact same design as the original Moog one:

Image

Definitely not v/oct => hz/v... ;)

zoomtheline
No Longer Registered

Re: Is the ms20 mini a good entry point into modular synthes

Post by zoomtheline » Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:11 pm

I have bashed AG too many times on here but also shown respect too, I hope. But yeah, I would have read that post as cuntescending too. I think if you have been here a while you can pretty much second guess his intentions, let it slide and take out the valuable info. I just have to point out that, again, knowledge is partially subjective and opinion is not knowledge and we all, especially AG ;) need to remember this.
I'm waiting eagerly for the sub37 vids AG, are they happening at all? :)

User avatar
Bitexion
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 4230
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:43 pm
Gear: Alesis Andromeda A6
Roland D-50
Creamware Minimax
Yamaha DX7s
Analogue Systems modular
Ensoniq SQ-80
Waldorf Blofeld
Location: Drammen, Norway

Re: Is the ms20 mini a good entry point into modular synthes

Post by Bitexion » Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:35 pm

Let's not turn this into a AG thread. The man has some points. And he makes epic synth videos for all of us to fap over.
Lets leave it at that.

User avatar
shaft9000
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
Posts: 2042
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:13 am
Real name: Dave
Gear: Whips chains waxes oils dildos DMT TNT the LHC, and a black rubber duckie
Band: moneymoneymoney
Location: VanNuys, CA USA
Contact:

Re: Is the ms20 mini a good entry point into modular synthes

Post by shaft9000 » Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:04 pm

the MS-20 is a good entry point, but not ideal by today's standards. the Hz/V thing is a proprietary leftover of the 70s that has largely been abandoned, but for the metasonix range. Other than those two, Yamaha has not made anything for a long time that uses it.

A great entry point would be a cwejman S1 or a used dotcom, or barring funds a doepfer dark energy. If all you can afford is a ms-20 mini, learn DIY and build modules yourself for 1/3 the price. A lot of modular systems have many(unnecessarily) fancy generators, sure. But you still have to load up on VCAs, attenuators, mixers and other utilities to make the system a truly useful instrument, rather than just an elaborate processor and sound fx machine. It takes years and lots of money to get there; to even know what you want vs. what really is needed and what is just fluff.
2600.solus.modcan a.eurorack.cs60.JP8.Juno6.A6.sunsyn.volcakeys.jd990.tb303.x0xb0x.revolution.
999.m1am1.RY30.svc350.memotron

shaft9000.muffwiggler.com <- singles & mixtape
shaft9000.bandcamp.com <- spacemusic album
youtube.com/shaft9000 <- various synth demos and studies

bluntedcircuit
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:34 am
Real name: diaz
Gear: machinedrum, mpc1000, blofeld, maschine, kp3, esq1, ms20, ableton
Location: chicago
Contact:

Re: Is the ms20 mini a good entry point into modular synthes

Post by bluntedcircuit » Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:10 pm

It's the internet, mistakes are made, comments misread - not a big deal.

Moving on - I got it home yesterday but in my excitement to get it I forgot I needed 1/8 inch plug cable. Cruel...

User avatar
pflosi
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 3620
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:14 pm
Gear: more than 150 characters...
Location: zürich
Contact:

Re: Is the ms20 mini a good entry point into modular synthes

Post by pflosi » Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:07 pm

Well, for now you can be glad it's semimodular then :thumbright: :lol:

Have fun!

Post Reply