The factory preset conundrum

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Re: The factory preset conundrum

Post by meatballfulton » Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:51 pm

evanlong wrote:I have to agree on presets being fundamental to the FM experience. Therefore, how much did the DX7, the best-selling synth of all time, change the game with regard to synths from that point on
It was more than the presets that made the DX7 take off. 16 voices and velocity sensitive meant it could be played like a piano...this was a huge advance.
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Re: The factory preset conundrum

Post by commodorejohn » Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:00 pm

It was also crazy affordable for what it offered.
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Re: The factory preset conundrum

Post by zukskywalker » Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:01 pm

DX7 legend has it that whenever they were sent back to the factory they noticed that ALMOST NOBODY had loaded any unique(home brew)patches into them. Mostly cartridge loads and a few 3rd party custom loads.
Lesson learned by the manufacturers?
The mass consumer wants instant gratification. Only a few really like to build. So, enter the(lightly programmable) Romplers...with "better" presets.
(Personally I miss my random patch generator... 8-) )

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Re: The factory preset conundrum

Post by CS_TBL » Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:40 pm

zukskywalker wrote:Lesson learned by the manufacturers?
Not entirely.. analogue synths have faders/knobs because there aren't that many functions to twist. Many standard models featured two osc with waveform select, course pitch, fine pitch, perhaps a cross-action such as sync, amp adsr, filter adsr, 3..4 filter knobs and a few modulation routings. Now take a DX7 and the number of things to tweak goes through the roof. Physical controls bolted onto the DX7 would've made it more expensive.. it'd be a DX7 with a Jellinghaus.

So, Yamaha didn't really have choice.. high price or a wide public appeal, they picked the latter.

The same could be said about the D50 and that programmer-thing. Could it have been all in one, like the JD800? Sure.. for a price to match!
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Re: The factory preset conundrum

Post by Rezisehtnys » Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:38 pm

Well, there was the DX1...

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Re: The factory preset conundrum

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:55 am

griffin avid wrote:If the base HOPE behind a synthesizer is to synthesize (create) sounds....
We add on "NEW" before sounds and so the idea becomes to "Create new sounds".
The world has moved on since then and the current idea (HOPE) is to:
make MUSIC with the kind of sounds synthesizers are prone to make.
I think this says everything.

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Re: The factory preset conundrum

Post by shaft9000 » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:13 am

duh, FART sounds is all they ever make (that is worth listening to)

how is this even a remotely serious discussion? does anyone here really believe that adding presets to any synth design automatically makes it a better instrument?

georgemarauder wrote: I don't know what synths you're talking about, but after programming a sound on the Arp Odyssey, I desperately wished it had patch memory.
well there is a list of what synths i currently have and use in my signature, and i've had about again as many of other synths, too. the oddy falls squarely between the solus and 2600 in terms of features, and my solus is very close to a mk3 oddy in build / era / basic sound.

stick with the odyssey; with a little elbow grease it can be quickly navigated. i mean, interfaces don't get much better than that one. nor monosynth sound, for that matter.
get your head around everything an Oddy does and of course the all-important aesthetics of it, and you'd be almost ready to patch up basic 6-10 voice modular real-time compositions ~in one session no problem~ if you so desired. it's got about everything that's on 'the standard wishlist' of classic analog, except a sequencer and if yer daft you can fake it on that, too!
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Re: The factory preset conundrum

Post by Rezisehtnys » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:31 am

In this day and age there's not much more to be made new as far as sounds go, especially when we're talking about analogue subtractive. Sure technically there're millions of variations, but those variations are a variation of one sound. I think that's what's so appealing with FM, additive, granular, and wavetable. They haven't quite been pushed towards their boundaries in the way analogue subtractive synths have. It's why I look forward to getting a Blofeld or Micro Q if I can ever find one, the sound possibilities are astounding and couple that with responding to polyphonic aftertouch... My god, it's the spark to get me back into sitting in front of a synth for hours a day just making sounds. Those are some of my fondest memories as a kid, I got my JX-8P and I'd stand in front of it for hours on end in my bedroom making sounds for it. I was always so proud to show them off to my family and friend(s), because it was I that made them. Totally was the average child.

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Re: The factory preset conundrum

Post by commodorejohn » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:42 am

Rezisehtnys wrote:In this day and age there's not much more to be made new as far as sounds go, especially when we're talking about analogue subtractive. Sure technically there're millions of variations, but those variations are a variation of one sound.
Feh, what does that matter? Originality in sound design is like originality anywhere else - the more you consciously try for it, the more it will elude you, because you're trying to manufacture it instead of just letting your creative voice speak through. If you create a patch, it doesn't matter a bit if someone else once made a similar one, or if a million someone elses made similar ones - it's still your sound because you made it. To think that nothing that has been done before can be original is to confuse creativity with novelty.

Now, that said, FM etc. are under-utilized.
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Re: The factory preset conundrum

Post by georgemarauder » Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:59 am

shaft9000 wrote:
well there is a list of what synths i currently have and use in my signature, and i've had about again as many of other synths, too. the oddy falls squarely between the solus and 2600 in terms of features, and my solus is very close to a mk3 oddy in build / era / basic sound.

stick with the odyssey; with a little elbow grease it can be quickly navigated. i mean, interfaces don't get much better than that one. nor monosynth sound, for that matter.
get your head around everything an Oddy does and of course the all-important aesthetics of it, and you'd be almost ready to patch up basic 6-10 voice modular real-time compositions ~in one session no problem~ if you so desired. it's got about everything that's on 'the standard wishlist' of classic analog, except a sequencer and if yer daft you can fake it on that, too!
I never got to the point where I was really comfortable navigating the Odyssey. I usually just did crazy experiments with it feeling like a mad scientist or the pilot of the Enterprise, come up with something great and just wish I could save that sound somewhere. I even broke out the paper patch sheets to learn to program different sounds, and I wrote a few blank ones for sounds I created myself.

In the end, though, the Odyssey was a great instrument, but I prefer the Axxe to it when I'm making music. The Axxe is so easy to navigate and use and you can get great sounding timbres out of it very quickly. I know it lacks the functionality of an Odyssey, but it's still a great instrument.

They are both amazing, really. I can't wait to own them again now that I'm back making music.

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Re: The factory preset conundrum

Post by griffin avid » Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:39 am

I think this says everything.

I know. You want to live in a world where people look at a synthesizer and think in some historical and purist context and are happy to be ooohhhing and ahhhhing over the (quality) SOUNDS IT CAN MAKE. I was going to write "I can imagine you...." but I don't have to- it's all in your minbrute review where you, literally sit there gushing over its sound and the patches you are making. And yes, there is a large crowd out there (Who are also collectors) who enjoy making sounds. I'm not saying that's all they do or that in and of itself is not a worthy reason to buy, own whatever goes here next when it comes to synths. I also accept that it's not THE ONLY reason. And the only valid reason.

But what nobody wants to admit is the huge attraction for the SOUNDS that SYNTH is known/prone to make as PART of its ALLURE. Who does sit there and gush over specs and components outside of the context of what they add up to- in terms of sound coming out the synth? And you know what? You might as well call the sound on that old classic record you cherish so much a preset. It's serving the same purpose.

You can consider every person that pops on here and wants to know what synth made what sound part of that group. Whether you program it yourself or find it in a preset, you are chasing a sound. The idea of it being A SOUND is what I am talking about.

People hear music they like.
They hear the sounds in the music they like.
They ask about the thing that makes the sounds they like.
They are told synthesizers.
They realize they like synthesizers and start that journey.

Is that the wrong way in?
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Re: The factory preset conundrum

Post by sensorium » Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:45 am

Glad I'm not the only one growing tired of his elitist, know-it-all responses to anyone with a different opinion than his own.

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Re: The factory preset conundrum

Post by pflosi » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:23 am

I really don't get this thread :dontknow:

Have a synth with presets that you don't like? Ignore or wipe them and create your own. You don't like the init patch? Create your own.

Have a synth with presets that you like? Enjoy them, tweak to taste, use them.

Have a synth without memory? Learn to program it.

Where's the big deal? Are you guys really complaining that you don't like the factory presets in synths? What's the point?

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Re: The factory preset conundrum

Post by Psy_Free » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:00 am

pflosi wrote:I really don't get this thread :dontknow:

Have a synth with presets that you don't like? Ignore or wipe them and create your own. You don't like the init patch? Create your own.

Have a synth with presets that you like? Enjoy them, tweak to taste, use them.

Have a synth without memory? Learn to program it.

Where's the big deal? Are you guys really complaining that you don't like the factory presets in synths? What's the point?
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Re: The factory preset conundrum

Post by balma » Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:17 pm

Making sounds and making music are the same . At least that's the way I see it. Or, looking it in another way, programming sequences and programming sounds are not separated processes, but part of the same thing: composing music with synths.

btw, when does the Factory Preset is gone and the User Patch makes appearance?
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