When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Fri May 09, 2014 2:47 am

Shanesaw wrote:Have you considered a FutureRetro Mondovox and your choice of up to 16 brutes? I know at least 8 microbrutes and a mondovox is $2700 or so but you could maybe start with 3 or 4 and over time, build up to the 8 or so voices that you need. Think of all of the patching madness!

Ok, so down sides - Gonna need space to have 8 micro/minibrures and a mondovox. No noise source on the microbrutes and no response to velocity. MIDI cables everywhere. Possibly more unforeseen problems.

Anyone please correct me if I'm off on this as I'm considering doing this with 4 microbrutes.
That should work fine I reckon. Have you considered using the Pittsburgh Modular Synthesizer Box for the voices instead of the uBrute though? Slightly cheaper (although maybe not once you factor in case and power supply) and with more patch points and no keyboard which you don't need eight of, you don't get the cool ultrasaw which would make for nice pads though. The blade waveform looks pretty cool though. Easy to get a noise module to patch in for modulation, setting up more complex stuff like mixing noise with waveforms would need additional mixers though. I'm making a similar thing although only four voices and with additional oscs, and making my own CV controller keyboard. Worth thinking about though.

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by commodorejohn » Fri May 09, 2014 3:01 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:Unless you're handy with DIY… http://www.cs80.com/crowbx/
Yeah, now that you mention it...anybody built one of these? How economical does it wind up being when you factor in the cost of parts, controller, and housing?
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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by madmarkmagee » Fri May 09, 2014 5:03 am

I wouldn't say that mono's are better than polys. That's crazy talk.

I don't think we will see another analog poly from dsi for a while. I reckon we could see a tetra like machine that is half a prophet 12 with some features on the side(and hopefully be a bit more hands on then the tetra). That would be awesome. It would also be good if they released an entirely new poly with a different osc/filter setup, that would be cool.

It would be good to see some more 5 + voice polys on the market (polysix reissue). But again it will cost money. If a single voice minibrute cost what it does having 5 voices will cost a good bit more. Don't think that filter is suited to a poly but that's just me.

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by Rezisehtnys » Fri May 09, 2014 6:27 am

Another option would to be to get 6 or more Slim Phatty modules and poly-chain them together. Though can get a SE Code at that rate.

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by Black Tomorrow » Fri May 09, 2014 7:30 am

Shanesaw wrote:Have you considered a FutureRetro Mondovox and your choice of up to 16 brutes? I know at least 8 microbrutes and a mondovox is $2700 or so but you could maybe start with 3 or 4 and over time, build up to the 8 or so voices that you need. Think of all of the patching madness!
I'd actually LOVE to do something like this. Yeah, it's impractical, but that's part of the fun. This is why the Eight Voice was my dream poly until hearing about the Mondovox. I love the idea of setting each voice to be subtly (or wildly!) different. I suppose a bunch of microbrutes would be the cheapest way to do this, but I think another fun option would be all different synths.

As for the cost of a new analog poly, consider what the prices were for the old polys when they first came out. These days we really are spoiled with the price of electronics. The idea of a full analog poly for $3k would have sounded absurd in the 80's.
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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by adamstan » Fri May 09, 2014 8:11 am

I think, that biggest cost in analogue polysynth is not in electronic parts, but in developing it and actually getting it running. Transistors, resistors, OPAmps, and even DACs are dirt cheap today. Parts and boards for my DIY 5 voice 2VCO poly cost me ~$1000 - but it needed many revisions and updates, and still isn't perfect and has some bugs and glitches. Designing boards, writing OS, wiring, fighting with ground loops and other sources of hum&noise, calibrating it - it all takes much more work than with mono synth. I think it is safe to say, that you need several prototypes before you get it right. And if one doesn't have acces to Synth-on-a-chip ICs, then it gets big, so the mechanical part gets more expensive too.
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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by SeventhStar » Fri May 09, 2014 8:45 am

Black Tomorrow wrote: I love the idea of setting each voice to be subtly (or wildly!) different. I suppose a bunch of microbrutes would be the cheapest way to do this, but I think another fun option would be all different synths.
I know of a cheaper way to have each voice subtly or wildly different, buy a vintage Sequential Six-Trak or Multi-Trak..
Black Tomorrow wrote: As for the cost of a new analog poly, consider what the prices were for the old polys when they first came out. These days we really are spoiled with the price of electronics. The idea of a full analog poly for $3k would have sounded absurd in the 80's.
Don't know why you think $3K would have been absurd for a full analog poly in the 80s. The list price of a Prophet 5 was $4495 ($16,290 in today's dollars) when it first came out in 1978. The Rev 3 Prophets were $3995 ($9085 today) in 1984.. That was for all analog, including envelope generators etc. At $3K, the Prophet 12 is a good deal, in comparison, when you adjust for inflation. Prophet 12 is like $1319 in 1984 dollars.

Dave Smith could probably sell a Super Prophet 48 (48 voices) for $12,000 today.. Maybe $16,000 with triple-deck keyboards so you can assign 16 voices per keyboard. Buy two and chain them together, with Dave's super-duper midi implementation, for 96 voices of DSI/Sequential magic. With 6 keyboards on call for all of your creative madness :twisted:

In case you are reading Dave, if you build it, they will come.. There are Super Cars, so why not Super Synths.. Only problem is Dave might run out of Curtis chips after building only 50 or less of them.

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by Ashe37 » Fri May 09, 2014 9:54 am

The 'Curtis' chips Dave is using are current production chips made by OnChip Systems, not some super-secret supply of leftover Curtis chips. As the current Dave Smith products are sold in Europe, they must be RoHS compliant, and the older chips likely were not.

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by Black Tomorrow » Fri May 09, 2014 9:59 am

I guess I didn't articulate that quite so well. Inflation and all that. People today would be hopping mad if they were told they had to pay $16k or even $9k for an analog poly. Translate it the other way around. I'm only being rough in my estimation, but synthesists back then would've been ecstatic to pay only eight or nine hundred for a Prophet 5.
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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by alan partridge » Fri May 09, 2014 10:08 am

Earlier in the year Dave Smith mentioned a new synth in the summer, so it's not impossible it might be a prophet 08 upgrade/replacement, although it might well not be. I'd be surprised not to see a new poly from one of the three of korg, novation and arturia in the next few years, or a bigger but simpler synth from elektron.

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by Ashe37 » Fri May 09, 2014 10:18 am

an analog poly? not from Novation. Korg , maybe... 'in the next few years'... but that's a long time in the synth world. A simpler but bigger synth from Elektron? would go contrary to their knob-tweaky- 'parameter lock' UI thing.

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Fri May 09, 2014 10:42 am

Black Tomorrow wrote:I guess I didn't articulate that quite so well.
Was perfectly clear to me. :thumbleft:
alan partridge wrote:Earlier in the year Dave Smith mentioned a new synth in the summer, so it's not impossible it might be a prophet 08 upgrade/replacement, although it might well not be. I'd be surprised not to see a new poly from one of the three of korg, novation and arturia in the next few years, or a bigger but simpler synth from elektron.
I think the DSI will be a mono P12 to replace the MEK.

Korg, Novation and Arturia I think are possible, but 4-6 voices to keep them affordable, at least to start with. The BS2 particularly would be adaptable to make polyphonic. Arturia will make a two or three osc dual filter mono before they make a poly IMO.

Bigger but simpler synth from Elektron? I doubt it very much.

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by Sir Ruff » Fri May 09, 2014 7:31 pm

commodorejohn wrote:
Stab Frenzy wrote:Unless you're handy with DIY… http://www.cs80.com/crowbx/
Yeah, now that you mention it...anybody built one of these? How economical does it wind up being when you factor in the cost of parts, controller, and housing?
People are definitely making them (HUGE thread over on MW). I had been inquiring as to whether anyone was interested in building one for me--too early to know total cost, but it doesn't seem cheap given the bench time required (2-3k? maybe). BUT, OldCrow was telling me what he's thinking up moving into production boards, which would drop the cost and build time required dramatically. This should also hopefully lead to an 8-voice version (which is really the only way to roll, imho).

I've played the CrowBX 4-voice a couple times now, most recently at AHMW--it was sitting above an OBX so I got to spend some serious time A/B-ing them. It really is pretty spot on... A tiny bit of that "modern/constrained" sound (kind of like the new SEM vs. Old), but totally a winner if he moves into production.
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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by commodorejohn » Fri May 09, 2014 8:09 pm

Interesting. I was thinking it'd be fun to put two of those together for an 8-voice...the actual cost of the board sets in his shop isn't high, but I haven't gone to the trouble of pricing out the BOM to see how that adds up...still, if it's purely commodity ICs and discrete components, you'd think it couldn't be that expensive. Assuming, of course, that you can assemble it yourself and don't have to pay someone to do it (which I can.)
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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by Shanesaw » Fri May 09, 2014 8:32 pm

Stab Frenzy wrote:
Shanesaw wrote:Have you considered a FutureRetro Mondovox and your choice of up to 16 brutes? I know at least 8 microbrutes and a mondovox is $2700 or so but you could maybe start with 3 or 4 and over time, build up to the 8 or so voices that you need. Think of all of the patching madness!

Ok, so down sides - Gonna need space to have 8 micro/minibrures and a mondovox. No noise source on the microbrutes and no response to velocity. MIDI cables everywhere. Possibly more unforeseen problems.

Anyone please correct me if I'm off on this as I'm considering doing this with 4 microbrutes.
That should work fine I reckon. Have you considered using the Pittsburgh Modular Synthesizer Box for the voices instead of the uBrute though? Slightly cheaper (although maybe not once you factor in case and power supply) and with more patch points and no keyboard which you don't need eight of, you don't get the cool ultrasaw which would make for nice pads though. The blade waveform looks pretty cool though. Easy to get a noise module to patch in for modulation, setting up more complex stuff like mixing noise with waveforms would need additional mixers though. I'm making a similar thing although only four voices and with additional oscs, and making my own CV controller keyboard. Worth thinking about though.

I haven't considered that Stab, thanks! If I had the money, the Cwejman vm-1 would be pretty slick too.
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