When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by pflosi » Fri May 09, 2014 10:09 pm

Good luck finding four of those at once...

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by commodorejohn » Sat May 10, 2014 1:52 am

commodorejohn wrote:Interesting. I was thinking it'd be fun to put two of those together for an 8-voice...the actual cost of the board sets in his shop isn't high, but I haven't gone to the trouble of pricing out the BOM to see how that adds up...still, if it's purely commodity ICs and discrete components, you'd think it couldn't be that expensive. Assuming, of course, that you can assemble it yourself and don't have to pay someone to do it (which I can.)
I got curious about this, so I ran the BOM through Digi-Key, Mouser, and Jameco, tweaking the part quantities to hit any price breaks that would bring the total cost down. (Couldn't get a figure for the LS318P transistors, though.) The total for all the components and board sets to make a pair of 4-voice CrowBXes should be somewhere in the $1300-1400 range - but keep in mind, that's still not accounting for power supplies, controllers, or any housing/panels. (I'm also not 100% clear on what features the CrowBX itself has - the pictures on the site show a MIDI-to-CV converter driving it, but judging by the BOM I don't think that's part of the base unit - and it doesn't come with patch memory either.) Probably could still save you a chunk over most vintage 8-voice VCO polys if the limitations aren't an issue, but I'd personally be willing to settle for, say, 6 voices and either save some money or get additional features.
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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by SeventhStar » Sat May 10, 2014 2:35 am

Black Tomorrow wrote:I guess I didn't articulate that quite so well. Inflation and all that. People today would be hopping mad if they were told they had to pay $16k or even $9k for an analog poly. Translate it the other way around. I'm only being rough in my estimation, but synthesists back then would've been ecstatic to pay only eight or nine hundred for a Prophet 5.
It was your use of the word "absurd" that made me misread your comment about $3K for a synth in the 80s. I usually equate "absurd" or "ridiculous" equalling "expensive" when referring to prices. In your case, you used absurd to describe just the opposite. If the Prophet 5 was listed for $1300, 30 years ago, most people would've probably considered that wonderful instead of absurd.

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by HideawayStudio » Sat May 10, 2014 10:27 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:Oh so you want the SE Omega or CODE then?
Without the availability of Curtis CEM/SSM style monolithic VCO and filter chips, modern VCO based polysynths are always going to be expensive as the only alternative is to replicate their functionality old school style in discrete electronics which is multiplied up rapidly on every additional voice implemented. Also, without the consistency of monolithic designs, calibration rapidly becomes a headache! That said, there are one or two modern polys around....

I was about to suggest the same as above - the CODE8 is a current product.

I have an 8 voice SE Omega (16 VCO plus subs) in the studio with SEM and Minimoog filter options which I'm just about to upgrade to the CS80 filters. It is a beast of synth and has been put to good use on several of my sound libraries. If there is any complaint it is that it's just a little too clean sounding for my liking although there is a kit available to fit old school op amps.

If I had to compare it with a vintage poly then it would probably have to be something like a Rhodes Chroma but with a cleaner sound.

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by commodorejohn » Sat May 10, 2014 5:45 pm

HideawayStudio wrote:Without the availability of Curtis CEM/SSM style monolithic VCO and filter chips, modern VCO based polysynths are always going to be expensive as the only alternative is to replicate their functionality old school style in discrete electronics which is multiplied up rapidly on every additional voice implemented. Also, without the consistency of monolithic designs, calibration rapidly becomes a headache! That said, there are one or two modern polys around....
That's not the only alternative. A company with sufficient resources can design and produce their own ICs. That would add to the upfront cost but decrease the cost of mass production.

I'm curious, what has the Minibrute got inside it? Is it all discrete SMT parts?
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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by Ashe37 » Sat May 10, 2014 7:04 pm

discrete SMT components and off-the-shelf ICs. Considering Yves' filter is designed using a TL 074, i suspect that is part of it.

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by Jabberwalky » Sat May 10, 2014 7:26 pm

Has anyone cracked open the BassStation 2 to see how it's made? I'd suspect it's a synth on a chip type deal.

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by madmarkmagee » Tue May 13, 2014 7:19 am

What about the Analog four. Does that have custom filter ICs etc? That would be a synth on a chip kind of deal?

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Tue May 13, 2014 8:58 am

I'm pretty sure the A4 is based around the 2164 VCA.

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by Ashe37 » Tue May 13, 2014 9:02 am

2164 VCA?

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by pflosi » Tue May 13, 2014 9:56 am

I guess he meant the SSM 2164. No idea whether it's true though...

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by Ashe37 » Tue May 13, 2014 10:09 am

wow, Analog Devices still made em til recently... I dunno if they'd use it tho since you can't source them in bulk anymore...

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Tue May 13, 2014 12:25 pm


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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Tue May 13, 2014 5:38 pm

madmarkmagee wrote:I wouldn't say that mono's are better than polys. That's crazy talk.
I'm good at crazy talk.

I prefer monos because of the sad thing that happens to synthesizers when you make them polyphonic. There is no reason why a synthesizer should play 4 or 6 or 8 carbon copies of the timbres, pitches, etc. you've chosen each time you play a chord. That is the way that organs and pianos and etc. behave. The concept for synthesizers should have been that you got to choose what each voice would be doing... more of an orchestral model (if we're going to use antiquated models for a modern instrument) than a piano model.
But because the polyphony problem has been a problem since the early part of the 20th century, it was much easier to just give every single note the same treatment and timbre as any other note. Rock musicians were happy. The end.
But because polyphonic synthesizers (most of them, anyway... I love you Korg MonoPoly and Oberheim (x) Voice) follow the piano model, people play them like pianos or other emulative instruments. It's just such a limited application of a limitless potential, and we all always play the same sort of c**p on them (myself included).
If someone would make a polyphonic analog synth that allowed me to control oscillator, filter, and amp per note, then I would be much more excited about the polyphonic concept, and synthesizer music would be a lot more interesting and complex. Of course, I know it'd be expensive and complicated to pull that off... and that's why it hasn't happened.

I think you should sit tight, Kenneth.
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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by pflosi » Tue May 13, 2014 5:46 pm

There's good reasons to want every voice to be the same timbre. Just like there's good reasons why you wouldn't want that. Both have their place, one is just more common.

But I suppose you are happily multitracking your monos anyways, right? :thumbleft:

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