When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

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Stab Frenzy
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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Thu May 15, 2014 1:27 am

Automatic Gainsay wrote:I don't understand why people in the Sequencing Crowd are so worried about things being analog. This is probably a giant generalization, but it is sequencing that leads people to be concerned about precision, tuning, and reproduceability... the things that great analog is worst at. Of course, any future analog polys are undoubtedly going to be irritatingly stable and DCOish, so it's not a deal... but if they're irritatingly stable and DCOish, they're going to have stability and sound that is akin to the very nice-sounding digital polys out there. It really doesn't make any sense to me.
I wonder what you're basing that idea of the 'sequencing crowd' on. As somebody who probably falls into that category I don't agree with your reasoning at all, in fact it's probably the polar opposite of the reality. When you're playing a sequence, as calaverasgrande pointed out, you want maximum timbral variation to contrast the repetition of the notes. You also want the smoothest, most flexible variation in modulation, which is where analogue excels.
calaverasgrande wrote:well, when you are sequencing it is pretty common to use your free hands to manipulate the params on your monosynth or modular. Roll the EG up and down, wiggle the PWM a bit, speed up the LFO.
On a poly with enough voices to engage all your fingers, there really is not need or desire to manipulate every param in that fashion while you are playing. It seems like the way to go is set up a really nice patch and play the c**p out of it using aftertouch, pitchbend and mod.
I suppose you could take an 8 voice poly and play it like a mono, using one hand to play and the other to tweak.
I just never see anyone do that, and well, most analog polys I've messed with don't encourage twiddling. Even the JX3p and JX8p make you buy a 'programmer' accessory for the privilege.

Yeah sure there are the Jupiters and the OB-X's. But those are, how you say? Prohibitively expensive collector pieces?
So glad there are some people here who actually know what's going on! :D

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by Percivale » Thu May 15, 2014 2:35 am

Reply to TS - as soon as an organisation (non-DSI) with the know-how sees a market opportunity to produce one? I agree it should be a matter of time. That said, with choices available today, is something eluding your sonic palette?

Analogue or Digital - Recommend seeing them as complementary.

Monophonic or Polyphonic (or anything in between) - Fit for purpose.

Timbral variation or stability - Matter of preference. Analogue stuff, nothing can replace the real deal - that warmth and character, etc. Digital sequencers can generate variations/fluctuations in note, velocity and length and more, etc to "humanise" the output, e.g. MI MidiPal and MB SEQV4, etc. Not good enough? Perhaps this is one area manufacturers can improve.

Sonic output - our end objective. Less is more. Instead of relying on "newer, better, faster, badder" synthesizers to "fill" that gap (as if not owning enough already), suggest to look at some of the "old stuff" and creatively use what is available instead. The satisfaction level goes up and you save money. Veteran VSE folks can surely "dial-in" any sound in mind.

Curiosity Question - There is more than one way to skin a cat. I wonder if it is possible to multi-track a lush string pad or something that requires a de-tune of say, four oscillators on a monophonic synthesizer? Is this even a valid thought?
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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by commodorejohn » Thu May 15, 2014 2:42 am

Percivale wrote:Curiosity Question - There is more than one way to skin a cat. I wonder if it is possible to multi-track a lush string pad or something that requires a de-tune of say, four oscillators on a monophonic synthesizer? Is this even a valid thought?
For what it's worth, the main chords on my piece for the modern-analog compo were multiply multitracked on my MS-20 Mini (even before factoring in the faux-delay effect.) I can't remember off the top of my head if it was two or three layers (of two oscillators apiece) per note, but it definitely did give it the kind of bigger sound I was looking for.
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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Thu May 15, 2014 4:06 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:I wonder what you're basing that idea of the 'sequencing crowd' on. As somebody who probably falls into that category I don't agree with your reasoning at all, in fact it's probably the polar opposite of the reality. When you're playing a sequence, as calaverasgrande pointed out, you want maximum timbral variation to contrast the repetition of the notes. You also want the smoothest, most flexible variation in modulation, which is where analogue excels.
So, in essence, you're saying that you are representative of the average of sequencing musicians who employ analog. Is that what you're saying, Stabby? That you embody the voice of the thousands who cry out for analog to go along with their DAW? That all of the tons of people who seek to emulate music they like and have no idea what benefits analog has, but know that they should want it? In fact, are you saying you are the exact person you so frequently mock?

Because I don't think any of those things about you, and I don't think you are who I'm talking about at all.


All of that being said, I do appreciate those who seek variance in their sequencing. But most seem to want modulation that syncs with the tempo of their music. And they don't want to have to tune. And they want all of the things they're getting from the synth at the time of programming to always happen exactly as they did when the programming happened. No one seems to be addressing those issues. But if they're all fine, and the "sequencing crowd" wants ultimate variation, doesn't mind having to tune, doesn't mind that it's almost impossible to sync modulation with tempo, and likes unpredictable outcomes< etc. ... then I rescind my spectulation.
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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Thu May 15, 2014 7:37 am

Perhaps the sequencing crowd you're talking about is one that I'm not aware of. I thought I was part of it cause I'm a musician who uses sequencers and analogue synths, and quite often when I play a show I won't have a keyboard there at all, I'm just playing the sequencer with my hands.

Maybe there are other sequencing crowds out there that I don't know about.

Maybe I AM the exact person I so frequently mock? :o

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by monolith » Thu May 15, 2014 8:02 am

AG, do you mean the DAW/automate everything in ableton/wob wob wob sequencing crowd?

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by seamonkey » Thu May 15, 2014 5:19 pm

Rezisehtnys wrote:I play with both hands and I prefer actual analogue for my analogue sounds, but I have no problem with having a VA that covers the entire spectrum of analogue type sounds in one unit either. Perhaps KORG will come up with something soon..
I think I may have misunderstood your quote into thinking you were speaking of a Korg VA rather than referring to Korg producing a analog polysynth), but will leave my comment anyway. :oops:

Korg does have a great VA synth in the King Korg. Despite it's goofy name it sounds wonderful to my ears, and the filter emulations are delicious.
It's easy to program and is a lot of fun to play and come up with new sounds.
Never owned or played an Oberheim but to my ears it sounds closer to an OB than anything else.

Mitch Sigman did a great video comparing the emulated filters with the real thing.
Of course this will generate opinions, because everyone has different ears, but I liked it and it's nice to hear the comparison with the real instrument filter.

I absolutely love my Korg King Korg. Picked it up on ebay like new for $750.US
Last edited by seamonkey on Thu May 15, 2014 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by ninja6485 » Thu May 15, 2014 6:46 pm

Is anyone actually complaining about their analog synths not being precise enough while sequencing them? I feel like we're talking about a problem that no one actually has. And if the problem is actually just an assertion in disguise that there's no reason for people who prefer to sequence their synths to have analog synths, than the assertion is wrong and has already been put to rest.
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by CfNorENa » Thu May 15, 2014 7:21 pm

There has been some internet chatter that MFB will produce a 5-voice polyphonic analog synth, the Dominion 5, employing the same SED filter as their Dominion X/Dominion 1.

As far as I know, there's only a single online demo:

https://soundcloud.com/mfb-instruments/ ... ilter-24db

To my ears it sounds fantastic. Whether such a product will ever see the light of day is another matter (the idea for the project was floated over two years ago)...

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by calaverasgrande » Thu May 15, 2014 7:32 pm

I'd say that there is no use to me of another stiff sounding analog poly with thin DCOs or a boring osc-low pass-amp architecture.
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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by Re-Member » Thu May 15, 2014 7:47 pm

Raymond Scott was creating sequenced electronic music prior to any Moog device having a keyboard, so it's actually the other way around and we should be making generalizations about that "Keyboarding Crowd."

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by calaverasgrande » Thu May 15, 2014 9:00 pm

Re-Member wrote:Raymond Scott was creating sequenced electronic music prior to any Moog device having a keyboard, so it's actually the other way around and we should be making generalizations about that "Keyboarding Crowd."
I am not even kidding when I say I agree.

Performing music on a C Major scale based input device with notes outside of that scale relegated to naturals will have an influence on the output, much the same as a guitar tuned in fourths or a cello tuned in 5ths will influence the players fingering.


or maybe I am just making excuses to cover for my poor skills.
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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by Rezisehtnys » Thu May 15, 2014 10:04 pm

seamonkey wrote:
Rezisehtnys wrote:I play with both hands and I prefer actual analogue for my analogue sounds, but I have no problem with having a VA that covers the entire spectrum of analogue type sounds in one unit either. Perhaps KORG will come up with something soon..
I think I may have misunderstood your quote into thinking you were speaking of a Korg VA rather than referring to Korg producing a analog polysynth), but will leave my comment anyway. :oops:

Korg does have a great VA synth in the King Korg. Despite it's goofy name it sounds wonderful to my ears, and the filter emulations are delicious.
It's easy to program and is a lot of fun to play and come up with new sounds.
Never owned or played an Oberheim but to my ears it sounds closer to an OB than anything else.

Mitch Sigman did a great video comparing the emulated filters with the real thing.
Of course this will generate opinions, because everyone has different ears, but I liked it and it's nice to hear the comparison with the real instrument filter.

I absolutely love my Korg King Korg. Picked it up on ebay like new for $750.US
I meant in regards to an analogue poly, seeing as to what all they've done so far I imagine they're our best hope as far as a mass produced analogue poly that isn't from DSI.

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by Re-Member » Thu May 15, 2014 10:47 pm

Let's not forget about that LFO/Envelope Crowd either, folks... Back in my day, if you wanted a pad sound, you had to turn the volume all the way down, hold a note, then slowly turn the volume back up and down again. If you wanted vibrato, you had to take a screw driver to the circuit board and jiggle the tuning screw around. Kids today are now overly concerned about precision, tuning, and reproduceability using their fancy LFOs and envelopes to automate everything for them. Boy, I tell yah...
Last edited by Re-Member on Fri May 16, 2014 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: When will we see a new (non-DSI) analog poly?

Post by GuyaGuy » Fri May 16, 2014 12:05 am

I thought I was fairly typical in that I use both keys and sequencers.

In any case this thread has covered poly vs mono, digi vs analog, AND keys vs sequencers. We may never need another VSE thread ever again!

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