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Re: 4 Op DX synths Vs 8 Op DX Synths

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:28 am
by Hallu
commodorejohn wrote:
Hallu wrote:EDIT: You WILL use a software editor, these things have over 100 parameters easy (the SY77 pushes 200? anyone care to correct me on that?). Getting a knobby controller only works for fine tweaks over some things live, since these synths have rudimentary MIDI control and a lot of parameter changes don't affect in real time. Any grand idea of buying a MIDI controller and somehow getting an analog subtractive-style interaction should leave your body now. You are entering the digital world, get ready for single data knobs and screens :geek:
Now, a 2-op FM synth could be accessibly knobby - and I'm totally going to do that once I get around to having someone with more electronics experience draw up a suitable SBC design for me. Gotta love that vintage OPL2 tone :)
Because of how the operators mix together, I'm okay with no knobs though. Once you get the understanding of Yammie FM (and its easier to get than some of the VSE reviews make it seem) its pretty painless to whip sounds up.

I could see a FM "analog mono synth" style setup for basslines with just knobs for tone and a shared EG for all operators being decent enough. Also the Bastl FM DIY kit has a pretty good knob/parameter ratio :P

Re: 4 Op DX synths Vs 8 Op DX Synths

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:33 am
by pflosi
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:mrgreen:

Re: 4 Op DX synths Vs 8 Op DX Synths

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:27 pm
by Bitexion
Most DX fm sounds are made with stacks of 2 or 3 operators. Usually a timbre is made with 2 stacked operators, so with 6 operators you can get 3 totally different timbres together, instead of just 2 with 4-op. And lots of other variants too like having them modulate across eachother and weird stuff.

You kind of need digital stability for clean FM sounds, since the whole concept is based on the ratio between the operators being exact (down to the decimals). If it veers off just a tiny bit you get a good sound on one key and a clangorous mess one octave higher.

Re: 4 Op DX synths Vs 8 Op DX Synths

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:51 pm
by Jabberwalky
Those Modcans look really cool. Does anyone have firsthand experience with them? Also, I'm pretty sure those are DCO based oscillators, so stability isn't an issue.

Re: 4 Op DX synths Vs 8 Op DX Synths

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:04 pm
by Bitexion
Modcan has DCO's but also VCOs. But sadly they don't ship to Europe so I'll never be able to try it out.
If you can lock them into exact ratios then modular FM synthesis would be no problem. If they tend to drift just a tiny bit though, they're kind of only useful for clangy sounds and effects. No e-piano over 5 octaves.

I'll just have to look in envy at Deadmau5' modcan system. They look so damn pretty.

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Re: 4 Op DX synths Vs 8 Op DX Synths

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:24 am
by pflosi
Those FM modules I posted are Modcan Eurorack. You can easily get them in Europe. The Deadmau5 system is Modcan B.

They are digital, not DCO.

The 4op FM module isn't out yet. Here's the initial interest-check-demo by Bruce:


Re: 4 Op DX synths Vs 8 Op DX Synths

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:36 am
by Pro5
I wouldn't want 4-op again (had DX-100,TX81z) and compared to a DX7 II or TX-802.. well, it's fun and poss more immediate but I prefer the power.

Having said that, I prefer the amazing depth of programming available in the SY/TG77! That is a deep synth with so much going on (moreso than just it having 6-op FM), the AFM (Advanced) and all the little tricks open up a world of sound impossible on a DX7.

If you are after classic, simple FM sounds get a DX but if you are into FM and want to really explore it get an SY77! and just live with it's size :lol: (or a TG77 but SY is nicer to program from it's surface and is a great all round keyboard).

The FS1r is 8op and has some even more advanced things but it doesn't mean it can just do what an SY77 can - so for me the SY77 is the sweet spot of (A)FM and worth every penny.

Re: 4 Op DX synths Vs 8 Op DX Synths

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:43 am
by Bitexion
oh, I went to the modcan website when I saw DMs new system on twitter, it said they don't ship outside USA/Canada. But I guess the euro rack stuff can be bought from EU distributors then.

Re: 4 Op DX synths Vs 8 Op DX Synths

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:28 pm
by pflosi
Bitexion wrote:But I guess the euro rack stuff can be bought from EU distributors then.
Exactly. And I guess Schneiders or someone would figure out a way if you wanted some A or B modules in Europe as well...

Re: 4 Op DX synths Vs 8 Op DX Synths

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:03 pm
by EmptySet
Everyone always forgets about the V50. It's one of the last DX style synths Yamaha made in that series. And it has eight part performances. When you load in eight brass sounds all detuned a tad, it's one of the realest fake brass sounds I've ever heard. Also, the sequencer is solid. Loved that4 op machine a whole lot more than any DX7.

Re: 4 Op DX synths Vs 8 Op DX Synths

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:42 pm
by calyx93
EmptySet wrote:Everyone always forgets about the V50. It's one of the last DX style synths Yamaha made in that series. And it has eight part performances. When you load in eight brass sounds all detuned a tad, it's one of the realest fake brass sounds I've ever heard. Also, the sequencer is solid. Loved that4 op machine a whole lot more than any DX7.
and it's 16 note polyphonic - so layering isn't nearly as painfully restrictive as on the other 4-op machines. with the large display and the built in dual effects processor, it's probably the nicest 4-op imho.