What do you want from Moog?

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What do you want from Moog?

1) The exact tone from a previous product in a modern shell and competitive pricing for today.
10
14%
2) A BETTER version of a previous release with more modern options like USB/VST.
2
3%
3) A Moogy product with a different form - Thinner Rack Unit or 61 note keyboard
1
1%
4) A Poly synth- 4 and 8 voices and a limited edition 16 voices.
16
22%
5) RISK: A synth with a brand new tone that does NOT sound similar to anything they have made.
10
14%
6) RISK: A new product like a string synth or filter box.
5
7%
7) A workstation that's part synth, string synth, part theremin and has digital effects.
3
4%
8) Elements from their current (and some past) technology in modular format.
4
5%
9) Something affordable. Single voice, small and um...yeah...affordable.
4
5%
10) Follow KORG and clone a classic piece.
13
18%
11) A total stretch: A drum machine, a sampler- anything that Amos would be involved in.
6
8%
 
Total votes: 74

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Re: What do you want from Moog?

Post by ninja6485 » Tue May 27, 2014 4:49 am

Automatic Gainsay wrote:
Poptones wrote:Well, I think "analog purity" is alright. There should just be an awareness of it being a niche market label, whether you prefer it over other things or not. And some of the more recent purely analog instruments sell only relatively well because they are so affordable - from the Volca Series via the Micro and MiniBrute to the MS-20 Mini.
Of course, there is a network of more then only 10 people who are into analog modular stuff, but I can't see that many of the more traditional synth companies would consider them to be their main costumers (I'm not thinking of Yamaha or Roland). And particulary Moog is still somewhat in between, if you consider the Moogerfooger line and enhancements like the CP-251. Business-wise it would be suicidal for them to ignore the integration of analog hardware into digital recording environments. After all, Moog is a company, and a company wants to make at least some profit in order to be able to survive. Add to that the fact that it might not be the most compelling job for an engineer to design instruments that could have been designed 30 years ago.
I think the misunderstanding here comes from a lack of observation about the history of Moog synthesizers. Moog has a very specific niche. Unlike Roland and Korg and others who survived the DX7 and went on to implement digital, sampling, ROMpler, etc. technologies, Moog died at the onset of digital synths. When Big Briar started making Moogerfoogers, and then the Voyager... it didn't come back on the stage with a new digital etc. etc., Bob did what he knew best, and was best known for... analog technology.

Is the analog niche limited? You bet it is. But it also is currently extremely marketable. As plainly demonstrated by the fine work of Arturia and Korg lately. Of course, opening up to a wider market is always a desirable concept... but if you stray from the concept your market has in regard to your name, you do run the risk of destroying your market distinction or even reputation. Can Moog compete against Korg or Roland in the digital market? Good heavens no! But Moog has a respected niche. Historically, they are known for high-end high-quality analog synthesizers. What will happen to the market perception if they start turning out tiny digital objects with the Moog name slapped on them? I suspect nothing good. They will wade out into a market that is dominated by companies with a great deal more production strength than they possess.

So yes, Moog is very definitely trying to widen its market... but it is a path fraught with danger for a small company from a very specific niche market. I know a lot of kids think ANYTHING WITH THE MOOG NAME ON IT IS GOOD... and that's what Moog is trying to bank on. But lately, they haven't been really capturing the hearts of even their own niche market. As demonstrated by what people are saying about the aluminum Voyager and the issues with Minitaurs and Sub Phattys.
At first I was thinking: why not branch out and do a sampler or something, just for the h**l of it. Moog digital delay or something funky. But, now I think you're right, perhaps they should focus more resources into creating high quality analog synthesizers.
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

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Re: What do you want from Moog?

Post by Sensory » Tue May 27, 2014 4:53 am

synthroom wrote: You need to watch "Dr. Strangelove" if you want to learn the truth about fluoride... My god, they want to put it in childrens drinking water!
E O P
O P E
P O E

Oh you mean fluoride, the one naturally occurring in rivers and streams. Nope not that one. ;)

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Re: What do you want from Moog?

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Tue May 27, 2014 7:03 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:You're looking in the wrong place if you want that from Moog, but it's out there. Being made by Ken Macbeth and others.
Agreed.
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Re: What do you want from Moog?

Post by Bitexion » Tue May 27, 2014 7:09 am

Yeah...and Macbeth's stuff costing £4500 and upwards too..sighs.

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Re: What do you want from Moog?

Post by Broadwave » Tue May 27, 2014 7:21 am

Analog Purity... Buy an amazing modular system, create an "orsome" patch... stick it all through a bitcrusher :roll:

But seriously... It's time Moog stopped rehashing the Voyager/Sub Phatty etc. But they have to be careful that they don't go down the same road they did in the late 70's, ie. jumping on the "me too" bandwagon (I'm thinking Moog Opus as an example here).

Maybe a modern take on the Memorymoog? I just don't know, and to be honest, I think our Soundcloud followers or, if we're lucky, iTunes purchasers, really don't give a damn about what we produce our music on - It's only us who are sat in our studios, that care if we've got the latest Voyager, Prophet 12 or whatever.

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Re: What do you want from Moog?

Post by Hybrid88 » Tue May 27, 2014 7:28 am

Yeah but just because most people don't know (or give a c**p unfortunately) the difference between a Casiotone or a Minimoog doesn't mean they don't appreciate quality/distinctive sound. That *does* come across in the final product so it's not just us producers that realise some of these things are a bit more special than others.

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Re: What do you want from Moog?

Post by madtheory » Tue May 27, 2014 10:44 am

The f**k Voyager IS a MiniMoog with patch memories!!! It's a beautiful instrument. It's got the feel and the sound. If you're not happy with yours I'll gladly relieve you of it.

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Re: What do you want from Moog?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Tue May 27, 2014 11:26 am

Bitexion wrote:Yeah...and Macbeth's stuff costing £4500 and upwards too..sighs.
You want the best, you've gotta pay for it. It's pretty simple really. If they cut some corners to make it cheaper it wouldn't be the best. :idea:

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Re: What do you want from Moog?

Post by ppg_wavecomputer » Tue May 27, 2014 12:52 pm

Automatic Gainsay wrote:
ppg_wavecomputer wrote:
Hallu wrote:[...] Y'all are the Tea Party of synth purveyours. [...]
Ouch!

That remark was spot-on.

Stephen
Stephen, I'm sure you have an excellent grasp of the problematic nature of the Tea Party. From Germany.
Hey, we even have electricity over here. And we live in houses, not in caves.
synthroom wrote: [...] Moog was thought of as a synth company with bad management that other than a couple cool dinosaur products, made some pretty cheap and crappy synths. [...]
It´s good to see that some things never change.

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Re: What do you want from Moog?

Post by Kenneth » Tue May 27, 2014 10:48 pm

madtheory wrote:The f**k Voyager IS a MiniMoog with patch memories!!! It's a beautiful instrument. It's got the feel and the sound. If you're not happy with yours I'll gladly relieve you of it.
Seconded. The Voyager is the most incredible sounding monosynth available, no wonder Moog is having trouble thinking up new designs. They already created a perfect one.
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Re: What do you want from Moog?

Post by pflosi » Tue May 27, 2014 11:18 pm

A decently sized modular blows the Voyager away so hard it's not even funny. IMO something is strange about those Voyager oscs.

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Re: What do you want from Moog?

Post by Poptones » Tue May 27, 2014 11:44 pm

Automatic Gainsay wrote:
Poptones wrote:Well, I think "analog purity" is alright. There should just be an awareness of it being a niche market label, whether you prefer it over other things or not. And some of the more recent purely analog instruments sell only relatively well because they are so affordable - from the Volca Series via the Micro and MiniBrute to the MS-20 Mini.
Of course, there is a network of more then only 10 people who are into analog modular stuff, but I can't see that many of the more traditional synth companies would consider them to be their main costumers (I'm not thinking of Yamaha or Roland). And particulary Moog is still somewhat in between, if you consider the Moogerfooger line and enhancements like the CP-251. Business-wise it would be suicidal for them to ignore the integration of analog hardware into digital recording environments. After all, Moog is a company, and a company wants to make at least some profit in order to be able to survive. Add to that the fact that it might not be the most compelling job for an engineer to design instruments that could have been designed 30 years ago.
I think the misunderstanding here comes from a lack of observation about the history of Moog synthesizers. Moog has a very specific niche. Unlike Roland and Korg and others who survived the DX7 and went on to implement digital, sampling, ROMpler, etc. technologies, Moog died at the onset of digital synths. When Big Briar started making Moogerfoogers, and then the Voyager... it didn't come back on the stage with a new digital etc. etc., Bob did what he knew best, and was best known for... analog technology.

Is the analog niche limited? You bet it is. But it also is currently extremely marketable. As plainly demonstrated by the fine work of Arturia and Korg lately. Of course, opening up to a wider market is always a desirable concept... but if you stray from the concept your market has in regard to your name, you do run the risk of destroying your market distinction or even reputation. Can Moog compete against Korg or Roland in the digital market? Good heavens no! But Moog has a respected niche. Historically, they are known for high-end high-quality analog synthesizers. What will happen to the market perception if they start turning out tiny digital objects with the Moog name slapped on them? I suspect nothing good. They will wade out into a market that is dominated by companies with a great deal more production strength than they possess.

So yes, Moog is very definitely trying to widen its market... but it is a path fraught with danger for a small company from a very specific niche market. I know a lot of kids think ANYTHING WITH THE MOOG NAME ON IT IS GOOD... and that's what Moog is trying to bank on. But lately, they haven't been really capturing the hearts of even their own niche market. As demonstrated by what people are saying about the aluminum Voyager and the issues with Minitaurs and Sub Phattys.
I absolutely agree. And I neither meant to ignore Moog's own specific niche (which it clearly has), nor did I try to suggest that Moog should go all digital in order to be able to compete with Korg or Roland. The latter would be absurd.

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Re: What do you want from Moog?

Post by calaverasgrande » Wed May 28, 2014 12:18 am

I've been kind of dissapointed with the trajectory they have taken lately.
When Big Briar became Moog Music and started releasing more interesting Foogers and full on synths it was pretty neat. Especially the often overlooked Phatty. That one made a lot of progress between the initial and the final version.
Also products like the MP201 (the gas pedal with envelopes, gates and LFOs), the FreqBox and ClusterFlux.
But lately it seems like they are just re-hashing, not innovating.

Some folks here bag on the microprocessor side of Moog-music products. I kind of like it. There are some problems to be sure (I own two out of production units that have FW problems). But I am happy to have midi sync as well as the more advanced under the hood parameters like legato, note priority and poly assign.
Shoot when I nerd out and start using the MP201 with the Taurus is is mindboggling how many ways I can modulate via CV AND midi. And the Taurus is a very simple synth. With a Phatty or Voyager it gets even more bonkers.
I wish Moog would cough up a synth with the same kind of flexibility.
ADSR is nice and all, but maybe a couple more steps and looping on the envelopes, we have had 4+ stage envelopes for decades now! I like the idea of the flexibility of the MP201. Each channel can be a gate, LFO, envelope or noise source. Imagine a Moog whith a multimode filter, and 4 or 6 channels of MP201 style LFO/noise source/envelope. Then you could have modular style flexibility with all-in-one convenience.

I'd also love to see a moog keyboard with one or two moog features, lets say just one Osc and one ladder filter. And then maybe like 50-80hp of empty eurorack to be filled with modules.
That would kill!

I'm also one of those guys that thinks Moog should make an analog drum machine or at least drum module. Though I suppose Moog has never been well known for pattern based synths, so I am not sure what tradition they would draw on here. TR style? Linn style?
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Re: What do you want from Moog?

Post by calaverasgrande » Wed May 28, 2014 12:21 am

pflosi wrote:A decently sized modular blows the Voyager away so hard it's not even funny. IMO something is strange about those Voyager oscs.
except whatever patch storage you have on your modular is local to each module, and not global.
The Voyager has a few warts, but being a Mini with patch storage is pretty huge.
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Re: What do you want from Moog?

Post by griffin avid » Wed May 28, 2014 12:37 am

A decently sized modular blows the Voyager away so hard it's not even funny.

I'd honestly like to see/hear a link with that exact thing going on.
I am new to modular, but I don't know what set of pieces for a similar price point blow away the Voyager and Andromeda A6. That's the only reason I haven't started with sound generating modules.

Unless you are being sarcastic or offering an idea that is meant to win an argument and isn't really serious.
I can never tell anymore the difference between trolling/sarcasm and unique points of view based on legitimate experience that's expressed in a passionate way.
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