So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by monolith » Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:21 pm

joeboy wrote:I have nothing against prog. King Crimson is one of my favorite bands (though they don't use synths hmmm). Nothing wrong with being complex either. It's just that DT's music in particular is ridiculous and annoying.
This whole quote pretty much sums it up for me. I love King Crimson, early Yes, Mahavishnu Orchestra and Mars Volta but bands like Dream Theatre and Porcupine Tree don't appeal to me. He got my vote in the death match because he's in Dream Theatre.

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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by tim gueguen » Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:55 pm

Funny, but when I think of overendorsement it's Zakk Wylde that comes to mind, not Rudess.
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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by Re-Member » Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:05 pm

JayEm wrote:He's the shamwow guy of music gear.
I don't think I've ever heard a Dream Theatre song, I only know of them because of "Jordan Rudess of DT..."
Haha! That's pretty much my view of him too. Not only haven't I heard anything's he done, I simply refuse to since he's always being mentioned or presented as someone I'm supposed to like.

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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by meatballfulton » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:19 pm

When someone suggests I might like some music I've never heard, I'll usually listen. Which is why I did buy one DT album, didn't like it (as mentioned earlier).

If I ignored every listening suggestion my life would be poorer by far.
I listened to Hatfield and the North at Rainbow. They were very wonderful and they made my heart a prisoner.

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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by ninja6485 » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:01 pm

Dream theater sucks. Early Iced earth is f**k awesome. Although the lyrics leave something to be desired aside, Night of the storm rider is one of my favorite albums, and easily among the best thash metal albums of its decade.

I own a bunch of DT albums, and I've seen them live a few times. Images and words is decent, the concerts were meh. Over all they seem musically verbose. I would contrast them to two bands that also value complexity and musicianship: viz.. Death, and Chic Corea's return to forever; noting that neither of these two bands suffers from the same deficiency of musical import frequently attributed to dream theater. It's a niche of course, and sometimes they really hit it out of the park. A lot of their works are ambitious, and there are tons of people who find them extremely appealing.

As far as Jordan Rudess is concerned, I actually like Jordan Rudess (to a certian degree)as he portrays himself in the public eye. I could see possibly being friends with him if I knew him in real life, although he might get a bit tedious on a bad day if he maintains his public persona. He posts some interesting videos on Youtube (his home studio tour), and he shows concern for his fans and concern for helping his fans improve their keyboard ability. The fact that he whores out products left and right is extremely entertaining to me, and the fact that he has that beard with no hair, mixed with his personality, makes him extremely well suited to the celebrity death match! It's too good to not bust on, especially since the deathmatch is not mean spirited.
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by Re-Member » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:50 pm

meatballfulton wrote:If I ignored every listening suggestion my life would be poorer by far.
That depends on whether or not you directly asked for a suggestion in the first place. I'd had hundreds of people throughout my life bombard me with an endless list of bands I should listen to, books I should read, movies I should watch, or television shows I must see without me even asking. 9 times out of 10, it turns out to be a disappointing waste of time. If I took in every suggestion, I'd be buried alive in mediocrity and have no time to enjoy the things I already do. It's not that I'm opposed to taking in new things, but I prefer to seek these things out on my own or provide a specific point of reference should I choose to ask someone. The moment anyone gets all excited and says, "oh, DUDE, you GOTTA check out this...!," I just look at them blankly and say, "sure... probably later."

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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by Aaron2 » Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:16 am

Re-Member wrote:
meatballfulton wrote:If I ignored every listening suggestion my life would be poorer by far.
That depends on whether or not you directly asked for a suggestion in the first place. I'd had hundreds of people throughout my life bombard me with an endless list of bands I should listen to, books I should read, movies I should watch, or television shows I must see without me even asking. 9 times out of 10, it turns out to be a disappointing waste of time. If I took in every suggestion, I'd be buried alive in mediocrity and have no time to enjoy the things I already do. It's not that I'm opposed to taking in new things, but I prefer to seek these things out on my own or provide a specific point of reference should I choose to ask someone. The moment anyone gets all excited and says, "oh, DUDE, you GOTTA check out this...!," I just look at them blankly and say, "sure... probably later."
Well said and I totally agree. People think that just because you like x, you'll necessarily like y, and 99 times out of 100, it isn't true.

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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by meatballfulton » Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:02 pm

It's that 1 out of 100 you want to pay attention to. As a music fan, I've usually heard what the average joe suggests but when a bandmate or musician friend suggests something, I always check it out.

OK, back to the real topic.
I listened to Hatfield and the North at Rainbow. They were very wonderful and they made my heart a prisoner.

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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by StepLogik » Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:22 pm

Stab Frenzy wrote:I always thought people didn't like him cause every time some new product comes out he's there spruiking it, much like BT did about 10 years ago. He's a serial shill.
This. There is something very off-putting about an obvious w***e for the musical instrument industry.

I don't care for prog rock and everything I've heard from DT isn't my cup of tea.

That being said, JR has talent and dude CAN play well.

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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by gs » Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:56 pm

Sure, as far as technique and speed, Rudess could probably eat my lunch, as well as most of the rest of us here.

From my perspective, I value musical knowledge from ANY musician beyond the usual 3-chord, 4/4 paradigm. But for me, the real value lies in continued learning of new and interesting harmonic variations, and creative melodic lines. Not just SPEED. I never place any value on mere SPEED alone. After all, any note can be a passing tone. Musical "speed demons" like Rudess tend to grate on my nerves a bit... but I do respect the guy and think he's a totally accomplished musician.

I'm also more into early 70s style prog, and not so much "prog metal".
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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by shaft9000 » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:04 pm

it's not Rudess, it's DT.
Now, I haven't listened to them at all beyond their first couple of albums some 20+ years ago. I think maybe Rudess came along later, even. But I get the impression that it's been more of the same since ...anyway, at the time they came across like a parody of two eras stuck together that should both be left alone as they were: hair-metal and prog. To each their own, but I wouldn't call such a choice "the way to go". To a geeky teenage guy, sure it might seem to be awesome - but not if you're someone that's well aware of how music and culture has developed over the years prior.

And then the other problem - Typically, the problem with "speed" players (on any instrument) is they haven't the life experience to play much of anything with nuance or patience(too much time glued to their instrument). There are a few exceptions, to be sure; but DT did not sound like one of them.
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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by ninja6485 » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:25 pm

shaft9000 wrote:it's not Rudess, it's DT.
Now, I haven't listened to them at all beyond their first couple of albums some 20+ years ago. I think maybe Rudess came along later, even. But I get the impression that it's been more of the same since ...anyway, at the time they came across like a parody of two eras stuck together that should both be left alone as they were: hair-metal and prog. To each their own, but I wouldn't call such a choice "the way to go". To a geeky teenage guy, sure it might seem to be awesome - but not if you're someone that's well aware of how music and culture has developed over the years prior.

And then the other problem - Typically, the problem with "speed" players (on any instrument) is they haven't the life experience to play much of anything with nuance or patience(too much time glued to their instrument). There are a few exceptions, to be sure; but DT did not sound like one of them.
Nailed it. :agree:
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by Bitexion » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:42 pm

I love hair metal/prog :D I'd sell my grandmother if it meant getting tickets for a DT show nearby.

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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by commodorejohn » Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:01 pm

ninja6485 wrote:Nailed it. :agree:
Thirded. I love progressive rock, and I can dig me some hair-metal, but they're two great tastes that just don't taste that great together.

(See also: Tool, for prog/industrial.)
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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by chipaudette » Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:09 pm

Rudess seems like an odd duck, but I'm gonna stand up and defend him. Any synth player, in a sorta-Metal musical context, who has the audacity and imagination to haul out a lap-steel guitar for the declarative main theme of an album's eponymous track (I'm talking Octavarium, from Octavarium)...well, that's just ballsy out-of-the-box thinking that deserves some kudos.

You gotta Jump to 6:29...'cause the BBvideo tag used below won't let me link the proper start time...sorry...



Yes, yes, the orchestra and the double-neck guitar aren't going to bring anyone to love DT...but bringing your love to DT is not my point. They're totally love 'em or hate 'em. I'm cool with that. My point is: what other synthesist would haul out a lap steel in the context of hard(ish) rock / metal? Not many. I think that originality in thinking is worth a little respect...

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