Saying it's live with a laptop next ....

Discussions about anything analog, digital, MIDI, synth technology, techniques, theories and more.
Infinity Curve
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 474
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:21 pm
Real name: Cody
Gear: SH101, Monomachine, Machinedrum, Analog Four, lots of eurorack
Band: Infinity Curve
Location: Toronto Canada

Re: Saying it's live with a laptop next ....

Post by Infinity Curve » Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:22 pm

Meatball gets it.

User avatar
calaverasgrande
Expert Member
Expert Member
Posts: 1038
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:29 pm
Gear: MG1, MP201, MF101, MF102, Taurus 3, SH09, KPR-77, Streichfett, Dark Energy, X0Xb0x, Dronelab, Synsonics Drums, Machinedrum, Modular.
Band: N.S.V.
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Saying it's live with a laptop next ....

Post by calaverasgrande » Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:27 pm

also, in the last few years there has been a quiet revolution in DJ-ing.
Most DJ's are now either working from digital controllers. Some are using records and turntables that communicate via special discs and a gizmo that reads that discs to emulate vinyl style control of playback, like Serato. Younger DJ's never even bothered with vinyl and turntables (or CD's). They just carry a hard drive and a a controller.
The people who shake their behinds are not noticing.
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with all thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave

paturn
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:02 pm
Real name: Pat
Gear: Quasi Midi Sirius , Waldork Pulse 2 , Korg es-1 , MPC500 , lots of random circuit bent and other wise modded gear .
Band: Morlox, Syphilis Sauna
Location: Denver , Colorado

Re: Saying it's live with a laptop next ....

Post by paturn » Thu Dec 25, 2014 5:09 pm

I used a laptop running jeskola buzz with a controller and a joy stick for years and it was definitely "live" but I personally began to miss the "risk" factor … I think that at least for a certain level of musician (i.e. not taylor swift or whatever ) having your chops down and being "tight" is one of the best parts of playing live and for some people - the ones who come to relish the live performance and who aren't just there to get get wasted and take selfies - this is still really important and one of the main reasons for checking out live shows .. that being said I've seen people play with loads of hardware and it was completely dull because they didn't really interact with their gear much and I've also seen people using laptops with controllers that really put on a great live performance .. as per usual its a case by case basis .

User avatar
JayEm
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 240
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:41 am
Real name: Jonathan
Gear: KorgPoly800 Monotron MonotronDuo MonotronDelay Monotribe VolcaBass MS20Mini MS2000 MFB522 Arturia Minibrute Yamaha CS-15D Tama TechstarTS305
Band: datapark / KNUCKLEFACE / JayEm
Location: London, ON
Contact:

Re: Saying it's live with a laptop next ....

Post by JayEm » Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:37 am

Mr Knesh wrote:How about some cool performances of electronic music?


the hair alone...
w00t

User avatar
Soul_Processor
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:58 am

Re: Saying it's live with a laptop next ....

Post by Soul_Processor » Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:21 pm

calaverasgrande wrote:also, in the last few years there has been a quiet revolution in DJ-ing.
Most DJ's are now either working from digital controllers. Some are using records and turntables that communicate via special discs and a gizmo that reads that discs to emulate vinyl style control of playback, like Serato. Younger DJ's never even bothered with vinyl and turntables (or CD's). They just carry a hard drive and a a controller.
The people who shake their behinds are not noticing.
well in the techno / house genre (and I'm talking proper music, not that disgusting "edm" stuff), vinyl djing is actually having a renaissance.

I'm 23 and I started out DJing at 17, I only play vinyl records..

User avatar
calaverasgrande
Expert Member
Expert Member
Posts: 1038
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:29 pm
Gear: MG1, MP201, MF101, MF102, Taurus 3, SH09, KPR-77, Streichfett, Dark Energy, X0Xb0x, Dronelab, Synsonics Drums, Machinedrum, Modular.
Band: N.S.V.
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Saying it's live with a laptop next ....

Post by calaverasgrande » Sat Dec 27, 2014 11:25 pm

Soul_Processor wrote:
calaverasgrande wrote:also, in the last few years there has been a quiet revolution in DJ-ing.
Most DJ's are now either working from digital controllers. Some are using records and turntables that communicate via special discs and a gizmo that reads that discs to emulate vinyl style control of playback, like Serato. Younger DJ's never even bothered with vinyl and turntables (or CD's). They just carry a hard drive and a a controller.
The people who shake their behinds are not noticing.
well in the techno / house genre (and I'm talking proper music, not that disgusting "edm" stuff), vinyl djing is actually having a renaissance.

I'm 23 and I started out DJing at 17, I only play vinyl records..
My younger brother doesnt even own a turntable. And the HS age DJ I just sold my JBLs to kind of snickered at the idea of vinyl. "who wan't to haul all that around when you can carry all the songs for any possible set in your pocket?".
Maybe it's regional?
I'm more a vinyl guy myself. :D
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with all thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave

User avatar
Soul_Processor
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:58 am

Re: Saying it's live with a laptop next ....

Post by Soul_Processor » Sat Dec 27, 2014 11:48 pm

yeah maybe it's different here in Europe... I'm not saying that everybody here is spinning vinyl, but it definately is a thing (again).

I dunno, I think I like vinyl the most, because it is a very personal medium. It's tactile, and each record I own has its own character. Also I don't see the point in taking a terrabyte of music to a gig, I'd rather have a bag full of tracks I know really well and I can work with.

KBD_TRACKER
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 222
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:10 am

Re: Saying it's live with a laptop next ....

Post by KBD_TRACKER » Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:35 am

Soul_Processor wrote: I don't see the point in taking a terrabyte of music to a gig, I'd rather have a bag full of tracks I know really well and I can work with.
Very true, computer tech makes it possible to BPM match, phrase sync, in-key sync records solely through software ... whereas formerly a DJ did all this by ear and only through sheer knowledge of his music/records.

Good or bad ? is not for me to answer, but DJing WAS a true craft acquired through many hours of frustrating practice. Now things like serato or traktor allow all this almost without any of this practice. Of course on the dance floor the difference may not be relevant for either patrons and club-owner, just as a crowd of MP3-raised kids may not care a bit (or have any appreciation) for the sound of a vinyl record.
But the same question (as above for music-playing) applies: with this type of software is DJing still a "live" undertaking ???

Maybe this is all a moot point, a lost cause ... a "combat d'arrière garde" as the french say :|

Rokk
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:57 pm

Re: Saying it's live with a laptop next ....

Post by Rokk » Sun Dec 28, 2014 11:46 am

I have ambivalent feelings about electronic music live performances. I just released an album (most of it done with DX7), but I'm a studio guy and never did anything live besides gigs through my acoustic side (well, two times) as I kind of feel weird standing there pushing buttons and turning knobs or if I want to play synths live having backing tracks. I want to get live now with this album, but keep figuring out that the way to go would be to get two more musicians (a drummer and a guy that would play basslines on my minibrute).
I've seen many "live acts" and frequently asked myself why is the guy touching those knobs all the time without actually twisting them. I've seen it with DJ's and I've seen it with live acts. It appears to me as if the artist is trying to get bussy with something as he actually doesn't have all that much work there and he simply feels uncomfortable standing there, doing nothing or at best dance while doing nothing. He has a live act, remember? He has to do something on his machine all the time:) So he grooves his body a bit and touches a knob every few seconds to impress the crowd that he is actually doing something. I find it really funny and it seems very contagious :)

User avatar
Soul_Processor
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:58 am

Re: Saying it's live with a laptop next ....

Post by Soul_Processor » Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:26 pm

KBD_TRACKER wrote:
Soul_Processor wrote: Very true, computer tech makes it possible to BPM match, phrase sync, in-key sync records solely through software ... whereas formerly a DJ did all this by ear and only through sheer knowledge of his music/records.

Good or bad ? is not for me to answer, but DJing WAS a true craft acquired through many hours of frustrating practice. Now things like serato or traktor allow all this almost without any of this practice. Of course on the dance floor the difference may not be relevant for either patrons and club-owner, just as a crowd of MP3-raised kids may not care a bit (or have any appreciation) for the sound of a vinyl record.
But the same question (as above for music-playing) applies: with this type of software is DJing still a "live" undertaking ???

Maybe this is all a moot point, a lost cause ... a "combat d'arrière garde" as the french say :|
well there are actually some DJs who use the new technology to create something different and who are able to be creative with it.

but in my opinion, the majority of young djs toying with traktor and related software just use it, because it's cheaper and easier. for me, it just gets kind of old very quick when I see a guy playing, who just makes time-synced 1min transistion between every song, with a lot of high-pass filter of course for the "whhooosh", without any variation in style, intensity, etc...

for me, a good dj takes you on a musical journey.

User avatar
calaverasgrande
Expert Member
Expert Member
Posts: 1038
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:29 pm
Gear: MG1, MP201, MF101, MF102, Taurus 3, SH09, KPR-77, Streichfett, Dark Energy, X0Xb0x, Dronelab, Synsonics Drums, Machinedrum, Modular.
Band: N.S.V.
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Saying it's live with a laptop next ....

Post by calaverasgrande » Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:52 pm

eh, the wooshy eq transition stuff is hardly exclusive to laptop or vinyl DJs.
My best friend is a semi pro DJ. He finally moved up to a fancy new DJ mixer recently. It is pretty tiresome to be around him when he is practicing his DJ stuff. He has to keep doing all these EQ stunts that only work 10% of the time.
At least he knows enough not to do that at a paying gig. Yet.
He is also planning on getting a Serato type set up for the simple reason that he lives in NYC and it is just faster and easier to catch a cab or the subway with a laptop and one or two gadgets. He is a huge record collector and that was another point he made. On more than one occasion he has had some of his more obscure vinyl vanish into thin air. What are you going to do? Demand that the other DJs let you search their crates?

More to the point of the original post.
I make music with whatever I have. I prefer to use hardware because I can interact with it more directly. Also, to my ears there is a lot more personality to a hardware analog synth than a soft synth.
But if I wanted to make a track with just my laptop and Logic Pro. I can get 95% of that type of sound out of Logic. And truth be told, I am not constrained to the simple timing of most drum machines and step sequencer synths that seem designed for 4/4.
But yeah, when I play out, I bring a bass or guitar in addition to my sequencers and synths. Part of it is entertainment value. Part of it is feeling like a nudist at a bible camp up there on stage.
I also really like pedals....
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with all thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave

Ashe37
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3783
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:43 pm
Real name: Unpronounceable
Gear: Ensoniq SD-1/32,SQR,VFX,ESQm
Virus Indigo, M3-61 , MS2000BR, Volca Bass
Emu XL-7, Matrix 6r
TG-33, K3m, Blofeld, Micron, Mopho, BS II, JV-1080
Band: Eridani V
Location: Central VA

Re: Saying it's live with a laptop next ....

Post by Ashe37 » Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:11 am

JayEm wrote:
Mr Knesh wrote:How about some cool performances of electronic music?


the hair alone...
Londo?

User avatar
Re-Member
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 316
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:44 pm
Gear: Juno-60, SH-101, TR-606, JP-8000, MC-505, CZ-101, DX100, DX11, R3, microSTATION, Monotribe, MS-20 Mini, SQ-1, Volca Series, Minilogue, Moog Theremin
Location: PDX

Re: Saying it's live with a laptop next ....

Post by Re-Member » Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:20 pm

Jabberwalky wrote:So what you want is another Depeche Mode? How else would someone perform most electronic music entirely live.
Depeche Mode actually play along to backing tracks and have done so since the very beginning of their career. It wasn't until "Songs of Faith & Devotion" that they started using live drums, but even then, the drummer is being fed a click track to keep in sync with whatever backing tracks or prepared sequences they have going on.

To me, the only difference between having a laptop on stage vs. a sequenced set up or even a backing track is simply a matter of perception. Mr. Joe Ordinary in the audience will see a laptop and it could trigger a memory in his head of the laptop being "that thing I check emails, listen to music and wank off to p**n with." Most people have never even see a DAW in action. However, if Mr. Joe Ordinary sees a stage full of synthesizers, even if they are entirely sequenced with the performer doing absolutely nothing but miming, he probably wouldn't even realize what's technically happening. It's the same with backing tracks. You could throw a pop star out there with a bunch of backing musicians miming everything to a PA track, the audience probably won't pick up on this. Yet if you have a single guy on stage with a laptop whom is actually doing everything spur of the moment within a DAW and the audience has absolutely nothing else to look at, they become suspect.

User avatar
calaverasgrande
Expert Member
Expert Member
Posts: 1038
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:29 pm
Gear: MG1, MP201, MF101, MF102, Taurus 3, SH09, KPR-77, Streichfett, Dark Energy, X0Xb0x, Dronelab, Synsonics Drums, Machinedrum, Modular.
Band: N.S.V.
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Saying it's live with a laptop next ....

Post by calaverasgrande » Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:26 pm

Re-Member wrote:
Jabberwalky wrote:So what you want is another Depeche Mode? How else would someone perform most electronic music entirely live.
Depeche Mode actually play along to backing tracks and have done so since the very beginning of their career. It wasn't until "Songs of Faith & Devotion" that they started using live drums, but even then, the drummer is being fed a click track to keep in sync with whatever backing tracks or prepared sequences they have going on.

To me, the only difference between having a laptop on stage vs. a sequenced set up or even a backing track is simply a matter of perception.
Drummers for a lot of major acts play to click. Even heavy metal bands do this. It isn't just to stay in time to backing tracks. It also helps keep them from rushing the beat and provides a more of an 'album sound'. Which is the experience that concertgoers expect.
I do know a few acts that use click to keep in time with sequenced elements. Hardly the same thing as backing tracks.
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with all thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave

User avatar
Re-Member
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 316
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:44 pm
Gear: Juno-60, SH-101, TR-606, JP-8000, MC-505, CZ-101, DX100, DX11, R3, microSTATION, Monotribe, MS-20 Mini, SQ-1, Volca Series, Minilogue, Moog Theremin
Location: PDX

Re: Saying it's live with a laptop next ....

Post by Re-Member » Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:34 pm

calaverasgrande wrote:Drummers for a lot of major acts play to click. Even heavy metal bands do this. It isn't just to stay in time to backing tracks. It also helps keep them from rushing the beat and provides a more of an 'album sound'. Which is the experience that concertgoers expect.
I do know a few acts that use click to keep in time with sequenced elements. Hardly the same thing as backing tracks.
Well yeah, I know that. I was just using DM as an example. Gary Numan is another who does the same. I remember him even stating in an interview that it's easier to just have backing tracks for certain sounds rather than bring the gear to every gig and have something possibly fail. That's not to say everything you hear is coming from a backing track, just certain elements.

Post Reply