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Re: New hybrid digital/analogue Roland Synth?

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:40 am
by Walter Ego
Hybrid88 wrote:The Schmidt to me has to be one of the most incredible synths of the last few years, but you don't exactly see them around in music stores, nor do you see many people stepping up to own one.

I'd hazard a guess that it would be far easier for a company to sell 20,000 simple synths at a cheap price point than 2,000 quality ones at a high one.
Or if it's the Schmidt, just sell one for $20,000...

Re: New hybrid digital/analogue Roland Synth?

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:51 am
by calaverasgrande
Stab Frenzy wrote:
Z wrote:WTF is up with all the synths with minikeys these days. Some of us actually PLAY our synths.

However, I am intrigued by the x0x programming grid.
Mini keys are cheaper to produce and sell better, and synth manufacturers are more interested in making money than in making you or anyone else happy. Don't blame the manufacturers, blame the people who made the microkorg the best selling synth of the last ten years.
I'm not even kidding when I say that I'll walk out on a band that has a microKorg.
Throw in a Kaos pad and I am liable to hurl a beer bottle.

Re: New hybrid digital/analogue Roland Synth?

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:51 am
by Chewy
commodorejohn wrote: Which puts it in good company with the Juno-Di and the Jupiter-80...
Heh, yeah, I thought of them right after I posted, I don't think they were named well, either. I remember learning of the Jupiter-80 when it first came out (I think), looking it up, scanning the page with my eyes, and....

seeing that they did the same kinda s**t as with the Juno-Di/the other modern "Junos." Guess I shoulda known. Needless to say, I was pretty disappointed
commodorejohn wrote: Because Roland paid good money to develop their latest fancy-schmancy engines, and dammit, they're gonna use them!
Haha! They should definitely use them in a different place than this
calaverasgrande wrote: I'm not even kidding when I say that I'll walk out on a band that has a microKorg.
Throw in a Kaos pad and I am liable to hurl a beer bottle.
I agree with you about the Microkorg, but what's wrong with using a Kaoss pad?
Are you thinking of the Kaossilator? The KPs are effects units, the Kaossilators are the "synths"

Re: New hybrid digital/analogue Roland Synth?

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:04 am
by alan partridge
Stab Frenzy wrote:
alan partridge wrote:As people have mentioned elsewhere, there was no new-analog consumer non-niche market until DSI basically built it themselves about seven or eight years ago. Behringer are preparing to release a whole range of synths including VCO polys and monos, and there's going to be other new polysynths too, so it will all look much further down the road within about 18 months or so. Added to that, and the reason we're on this thread right now, there's going to be a lot of new hybrid instruments coming down the line.
I would argue that Moog had a bigger influence than DSI. The consumer analogue market really took off with the release of the Little Phatty, not the MEK.
The little phatty definitely was popular, but I was really talking about the prophet 08 spin-offs rather than the MEK, which was pretty niche at the time. Dave Smith basically created a whole new youth consumer analog market from the prophet 08 onwards - the mopho, tetra, mopho keys, mopho x4, tempest, etc which found a young audience that hadn't been exposed to analog synths before. Moog is important from about the turn of the century on in keeping a core market going, but Dave Smith and his engineering and market experience definitely has a lot to do with this.

Re: New hybrid digital/analogue Roland Synth?

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:50 am
by calaverasgrande
alan partridge wrote:As people have mentioned elsewhere, there was no new-analog consumer non-niche market until DSI basically built it themselves about seven or eight years ago. Behringer are preparing to release a whole range of synths including VCO polys and monos, and there's going to be other new polysynths too, so it will all look much further down the road within about 18 months or so. Added to that, and the reason we're on this thread right now, there's going to be a lot of new hybrid instruments coming down the line.
Don't they get Moog where you live?

Re: New hybrid digital/analogue Roland Synth?

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:14 am
by alan partridge
Before the prophet 08 range, the little phatty was in many cases the only analog large retailers stocked, particularly in the US. After 2007, outlets like guitarcenter started stocking large amounts of tetras, mophos, mopho x4s, p8s, p8 racks, etc. That's what built the youth analog market that Arturia, Korg and now Behringer have climbed on to. That isn't at all the same thing as making a value judgement about moog products, which are good, and as I said I think kept going a core market during a pretty analog-free period in the mainstream.

Re: New hybrid digital/analogue Roland Synth?

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:06 am
by zoomtheline
hmmm, No steps forward by Roland it seems. I wish they would do something out of this world. Maybe sort of like built in assignable effects controlled by the user waving over a lazer. Cutting the beam and position of hand etc would control a couple of parameters. Proper futuristic. If anyone can delve into this crazy future, Roland can.

Re: New hybrid digital/analogue Roland Synth?

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:30 pm
by calaverasgrande
alan partridge wrote:Before the prophet 08 range, the little phatty was in many cases the only analog large retailers stocked, particularly in the US. After 2007, outlets like guitarcenter started stocking large amounts of tetras, mophos, mopho x4s, p8s, p8 racks, etc. That's what built the youth analog market that Arturia, Korg and now Behringer have climbed on to. That isn't at all the same thing as making a value judgement about moog products, which are good, and as I said I think kept going a core market during a pretty analog-free period in the mainstream.
I guess you are saying that DSI took the lead because they had cheaper gear than Moog?
If that is the case I'd give more credit to Korg. They had their MicroKorg out over 10 years ago, and I've seen dozens of bands with them. They are affordable, easy to use and for many folks an entry to synthesis.
I know it is not analog, but the point is that it gets people in the door of analog-style synthesis. Then they want the real deal.
After it's success Korg has followed on with actual analog synths of varying utility. From the Monotron to the MS20 mini.
I think the other missing ingredient here is the whole 'maker' scene. DIY has been around a long time, but it became a hip thing for young folks to do in the last few years. A lot of it is crafty stuff like soap, purses and hats. But there is a strong electronic element. (The Ladyada team did go on to do that whole Raspberry Pi thing after the X0Xbox).
Visit a Maker Fair and you will see a lot of synth kits, Eurorack and arduino based musical instruments.

Re: New hybrid digital/analogue Roland Synth?

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:36 pm
by Bitexion
In the days of the early 2000's the only available new Moog was the Voyager, which was WAY out of most people's price range. Certainly out of mine so I only ever played it in stores sometimes (if it wasn't stacked off on a high shelf to avoid kids messing with it).

And Minimoogs went for £2-30k aswell used and online.

Re: New hybrid digital/analogue Roland Synth?

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:32 pm
by alan partridge
calaverasgrande wrote:
alan partridge wrote:Before the prophet 08 range, the little phatty was in many cases the only analog large retailers stocked, particularly in the US. After 2007, outlets like guitarcenter started stocking large amounts of tetras, mophos, mopho x4s, p8s, p8 racks, etc. That's what built the youth analog market that Arturia, Korg and now Behringer have climbed on to. That isn't at all the same thing as making a value judgement about moog products, which are good, and as I said I think kept going a core market during a pretty analog-free period in the mainstream.
I guess you are saying that DSI took the lead because they had cheaper gear than Moog?
If that is the case I'd give more credit to Korg. They had their MicroKorg out over 10 years ago, and I've seen dozens of bands with them. They are affordable, easy to use and for many folks an entry to synthesis.
I know it is not analog, but the point is that it gets people in the door of analog-style synthesis. Then they want the real deal.
After it's success Korg has followed on with actual analog synths of varying utility. From the Monotron to the MS20 mini.
I think the other missing ingredient here is the whole 'maker' scene. DIY has been around a long time, but it became a hip thing for young folks to do in the last few years. A lot of it is crafty stuff like soap, purses and hats. But there is a strong electronic element. (The Ladyada team did go on to do that whole Raspberry Pi thing after the X0Xbox).
Visit a Maker Fair and you will see a lot of synth kits, Eurorack and arduino based musical instruments.
I'd agree about the kit and diy scene helping to bring up a grassroots base for analog gradually, which everyone has built on, and that's obviously important - but it wasn't the mainstream, and it wasn't big enough at that time to interest the big manafacturers. I also love what Korg are doing recently, but I wouldn't agree on the microkorg and monotron being part of the same process - the microkorg was essentially an even more mass market version of mid 90s VA synths, and the monotron was almost ten years later, at the start of Korg getting onboard the real-analog youth mass market DSI had created. On the Voyager ; that's true ; it was a big-ticket niche item - the little phatty was cheaper and more popular, although it still didn't spread out of its original market in anything like the way Dave Smith's products did.

Re: New hybrid digital/analogue Roland Synth?

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:50 pm
by griffin avid
the microkorg was basically an even more mass market version of mid 90s VA synths

I agree with many of the points here, the microKORG may have been a baby MS2000, but no one (really) knew that.
I find that it works in waves and is impossible to name an exact product. When I considered a Voyager, it was Moog verse the Alesis Andromeda. $2,400 verse $2,800 and it might have been rack verse keyboard at that.

All the VA boxes truly give those that arrived 'late' an inkling of what was happening before and tickled the interest.
I think it's pretty natural to make the bump in a similar price range. I don't think a kid goes from a $400 dollar microKORG to a $2,000 Analog to be hip. But he might jump to a minibrute-type thingie or some such....

And so affordable and not collectible is the direction.
Keep adding features, watch the ticket rise and realize it's no longer anyone's 'first synth'
I think that's the golden place to land.

People with lots of experience or lots of gear get real...choosy and look for more reasons to dismiss than add to a list.
What I do miss is the tier system where you had a product arrive in all varieties...
Full keyboard.....Rack....Desktop.....mini....

When they do, it takes YEARS to complete the range and you probably dived in somewhere early...

Re: New hybrid digital/analogue Roland Synth?

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:54 pm
by alan partridge
Don't forget though, that before the mid-late 2000s, forums were not only full of people predicting that analog would never hit the mass market again, but also people angrily advising that VA or software could be indistinguishable from analog, or actually better. That reflected the fact that enthusiasm for VA didn't necessarily translate into enthusiasm for analog, and wasn't necessarily the same thing. The mass interest in real-analog is relatively new.

Re: New hybrid digital/analogue Roland Synth?

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:22 am
by ninja6485
At least in the tech/trance, etc. scenes going on around frankfort, berlin, goa, the UK and Belgium, and definitely with a lot of ambient house artists such as Pete Namlook, the focus on analog instruments had been heavily building throughout the 90s and early 2000's, and is even prevalent on a lot of the earlier albums from those dutch DJ's that eventually became the bees knees in the mid to late 2000's when VAs and software started to get popular. Fan Interest never really dwindled, all that we see are companies attempting to capitalize on what was there, and marketing programs that reflect this and saturate media sources.

Re: New hybrid digital/analogue Roland Synth?

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:35 am
by alan partridge
The grassroots interest in analog goes even further back to the turn of the 1990s, creating the whole virtual analog wave afterwards. What hasn't happened for 30 years is for true-analog to be at the centre of the mainstream, as it is moving to now. Another kind of demonstration of that is used analog prices - the fastest, explosive rate of growth has been in the last six or seven years or so.

Re: New hybrid digital/analogue Roland Synth?

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 2:34 pm
by vicd
:evil: Roland's copyrighter (or whoever from the marketing dept. who made up that JD-Xi lettering) should be fired immediately. This only reminds of the recent pitiful Junos (Di, Gi, whatever). It's not the XIth century outside my window, it's XXIst (though I doubt these Roland guys have something decent for the XXIst century up their sleeves).

If they did want to infer "digital + analog + heritage", they'd be far better off with something like JD-8000.

</flame off>