So who around here is the resident FM programming expert?

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jjh242
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So who around here is the resident FM programming expert?

Post by jjh242 » Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:10 am

I would love to pick their brain :)
I have a sy77 and I absolutely love the thing, but want to learn more. I have been reading as much as I can online and watching as many youtube videos on the topic that I can find, but I want to know more.

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Re: So who around here is the resident FM programming expert

Post by calaverasgrande » Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:43 am

No expert here, but I hated my dx21s until I got this little applet for it that lets you semi tweak it in semi real time with on screen knobs. I think it is called 4 op?
Made me finally understand what is going on.
There must be an editor librarian for the sy77 right?
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Re: So who around here is the resident FM programming expert

Post by Hybrid88 » Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:05 pm

CS_TBL is definitely the expert on FM around here ;)

http://www.vintagesynth.com/forum/membe ... e&u=102975

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Re: So who around here is the resident FM programming expert

Post by ninja6485 » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:21 pm

Yup - Just shine the FM-signal into the clouds, and he'll follow the trail to your house.

"...to the frequency modulation mobile!"
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

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Re: So who around here is the resident FM programming expert

Post by CS_TBL » Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:45 am

Ah! The light operator modulated the colour of the clouds, it gave me a feedback signal to move out of me wcave.

What ya wanna know, without being high-level like "how do you make Shakuachi with an SY77 that includes simulated lip pressure?"

edit:
Actually, in the job I had around 1999-2001, I was called a bat because of my accurate hearing. Mostly 'that terrible bat' by the way, because of me nagging the coder of the audio system for more functionality. :)
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FM8 vids

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Re: So who around here is the resident FM programming expert

Post by pflosi » Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:33 am

I highly recommend to check "FM Theory & Applications" by John Chowning and David Bristow :thumbleft:

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Re: So who around here is the resident FM programming expert

Post by jjh242 » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:01 pm

Well for starters I have trouble getting the mod wheel to work on some patches, and I can't seem to find out why. It's like it just doesn't want to work. I am trying to always have the mod wheel controlling the filter, but it only seems to work on a few patches, instead of all of them.
I was also curious to know how you think of FM as opposed to say a tradition analog synth as being a osc into a filter into an amp.
Sorry it's hard to put my questions into words at the moment.

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Re: So who around here is the resident FM programming expert

Post by pflosi » Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:22 pm

jjh242 wrote:I was also curious to know how you think of FM as opposed to say a tradition analog synth as being a osc into a filter into an amp.
Sorry it's hard to put my questions into words at the moment.
"Subtractive": take a wave with rich harmonic content and filter out what you don't need

"FM" and "additive": take a wave without harmonic content (i.e. a sine wave) and add what you need

:thumbright:

I don't like the terms much though, it's not like you're not adding or FMing anything in "subtractive" synths...

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Re: So who around here is the resident FM programming expert

Post by CS_TBL » Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:52 pm

jjh242 wrote:Well for starters I have trouble getting the mod wheel to work on some patches, and I can't seem to find out why. It's like it just doesn't want to work. I am trying to always have the mod wheel controlling the filter, but it only seems to work on a few patches, instead of all of them.
Can't check that, my SY77 is at my old address, kinda in a state of permanent storage. Hadn't touched it for maybe close to a decade.
I was also curious to know how you think of FM as opposed to say a tradition analog synth as being a osc into a filter into an amp.
It's simple.

Traditional/virtual analog synth = saw/block/pulse/triangle/sine/noise. Give or take PW/M, sync and ringmod and perhaps something else, that's practically it. And yes: I've used 'm, I know 'm.

FM = millions of voices, depending on the amount of operators. On one end it means it requires lots of attention from anyone using it, the aural landscape is just so much bigger. On the other end: millions of voices! Let's say that it's greatly diverse and allows to add fine details where traditional analogs can't go . It's also greatly reactive to velocity and key and stuff like aftertouch, pitch bend and modwheel - or heck, whatever other controller.
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FM8 vids

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Re: So who around here is the resident FM programming expert

Post by db0451 » Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:44 pm

jjh242 wrote:Well for starters I have trouble getting the mod wheel to work on some patches, and I can't seem to find out why. It's like it just doesn't want to work. I am trying to always have the mod wheel controlling the filter, but it only seems to work on a few patches, instead of all of them.
Of course. Controller settings in this synth are per-voice, not global. Download the manual or just look around the synth for the COM>Controllers settings. It might be possibly to copy them between voices, so have a look for that info too.

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Re: So who around here is the resident FM programming expert

Post by jjh242 » Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:37 pm

db0451 wrote:
jjh242 wrote:Well for starters I have trouble getting the mod wheel to work on some patches, and I can't seem to find out why. It's like it just doesn't want to work. I am trying to always have the mod wheel controlling the filter, but it only seems to work on a few patches, instead of all of them.
Of course. Controller settings in this synth are per-voice, not global. Download the manual or just look around the synth for the COM>Controllers settings. It might be possibly to copy them between voices, so have a look for that info too.
I get that they are not global, it just doesn't work on some patches for some reason. I edit the controller on each patch I create and it only works about 1/4 the time.

Thanks everyone else for your takes on FM. I honestly find it really interesting. :)

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Re: So who around here is the resident FM programming expert

Post by joeboy » Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:41 am

I have a quick question.
I'm trying to put practice into theory with my TX81Z. I know it's compatible with the DX21 in some ways. Was wondering if the method for calculating the modulation index (I = 8π × 2ʸ, where Y = -TL/8) shown on Chowning pg. 168 is also the same.

And what are the TL numbers exactly? Is there a way to manually calculate them from an operator's output level without consulting the chart on pg. 166?

EDIT:

So according to this site, only operator output levels of 0 - 19 have special TL numbers. Everything after that is just (99 - output level). Makes the program I'm writing to help me study a bit less manual.

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