Do people really not like the Micromoog?

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Re: Do people really not like the Micromoog?

Post by ColorForm2113 » Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:03 pm

I had a Micromoog, it was my first synth. And holy h**l is that a fantastic instrument. It looks so limited on the surface but with just a couple flicks of switches and it goes into outer space. I was lucky to be able to sell mine for $900 on eBay awhile ago with a flight case and some other goodies. This was shortly before everyone and their mother was releasing analog monosynths these past two years or so.
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Re: Do people really not like the Micromoog?

Post by ninja6485 » Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:59 pm

Nils wrote:
Automatic Gainsay wrote: You don't need multiple oscillators to do anything beyond having intervals.
Are you joking? How about FM, sync and ring mod?
Bitexion wrote:Most cheap monosynths didn't have any of those features even with two oscillators. No ringmod or sync on the minimoog either. Yamaha CS15, two VCOs, no sync or ringmod.
The original issue is whether you need multiple oscillators to do anything beyond having intervals. Nils is quite righ: fm, sync, and ring mod are excellent counter examples that show you do I'm fact need multiple oscillators to do things beyond having intervals. Pointing out that cheap monosynths didn't have those features is irrelevant to Nils' conclusion, since two oscillators are no more or less necessary for doing those things regardless of which synths have the features. The response is not a rebuttal, but a red herring, leading us astray to talk about what features cheap monosynths have.

Following the red herring for a moment, there is also a fallacy of accident going on in misapplying something taken as a general rule to a specific case in which the rule cannot cover. In this instance, positing that cheap monosynths don't have the previously mentioned features as a general rule, and then applying it to argue this rule applies in the specific case, namely the case of a monosynth that doesn't exist: a micromoog with two oscillators. For one, although the fact that a monosynth is cheap may indicate that it will have less features than a more expensive synth, the synth will never lack those features because it's cheap, and many a marketing strategy hinges on just this notion: offering features normally associated with more expensive items on a budget version, usually at the expense of materials or what have you (*ahem, behringer). But that aside, since the two osc micromoog doesn't exist, we can't really say anything about it without making believe that things occurred different from how they actually occurred; thus we can just as easily conclude that it would have had those features as we can that it would not have had the features, just as we could imagine it were released as a flagship synth instead, or that it was released with a nice pair of bat wings on the sides. (Synth stands are a thing of the past with the new bat-winged micromoog! )
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

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Re: Do people really not like the Micromoog?

Post by Bitexion » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:02 pm

Sir Marc, I am not worthy licking the ground behind your epic synth boots even.

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Re: Do people really not like the Micromoog?

Post by madtheory » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:22 pm

Beautifully put Ninja. Except a two osc microMoog does exist. It's called the Multimoog.

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Re: Do people really not like the Micromoog?

Post by ninja6485 » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:31 pm

madtheory wrote:Beautifully put Ninja. Except a two osc microMoog does exist. It's called the Multimoog.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Throw bat wings on it and I'm sold!
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

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Re: Do people really not like the Micromoog?

Post by yorgatron » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:14 am

I had a Prodigy once. it did some things very well, but it wasn't all that versatile.
I sold it for enough money to buy two different single-oscillator synths. :ugeek:

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Re: Do people really not like the Micromoog?

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:54 pm

1. If we're talking about the merits of the Micromoog, we're not comparing it to every synth that was ever made... especially synths that have greater complexity or functionality than it does. In regard to what I said, I was comparing it to other budget vintage synthesizers, primarily Moogs.

2. You can't have FM or sync with two oscillators unless the synth itself has those functions, and many budget vintage analog synthesizers don't.

3. The Micromoog is a single oscillator synthesizer, but it has a switch that allows you to modulate the filter with the oscillator... which generates FM-like sounds, especially when the filter is in self-oscillation.
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Re: Do people really not like the Micromoog?

Post by Bitexion » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:08 pm

I was a tad surprised to see that my CS-15 had neither ringmod, sync or FM modulation implemented.
Afterall it had a "GLIDE" function only for the oscillators which was kind of an attack/decay envelope for pitch modulation. Which would make perfect sense for all three functions.

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Re: Do people really not like the Micromoog?

Post by madtheory » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:52 pm

Actually glide is not an envelope. It's an LPF on the pitch CV. Is there a separate glide control for each "half" of the CS15?

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Re: Do people really not like the Micromoog?

Post by Bitexion » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:54 pm

It made the pitch move to a set point and glide up or down at a set speed. No idea how it was actually done.
Just reminded me of a attack/decay envelope set to pitch mod.
I don't have it anymore but I think it was on both VCOs. It would be PERFECT for sync sweeps or ringmod madness. But alas, no.
Those circuits would probably have made it more expensive. CS-30 has ringmod though.
Last edited by Bitexion on Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Do people really not like the Micromoog?

Post by commodorejohn » Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:17 pm

I doubt ring-mod as seen on a lot of monosynths would be that expensive. On the MS-20 or the Odyssey or other synths where the ring modulator only operates on the pulse/square waveform, it's seriously just a single exclusive-OR logic gate, since that works out to the same thing with binary signals. Dead simple.
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Re: Do people really not like the Micromoog?

Post by CZ Rider » Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:24 pm

The glide section on the CS-15 is more like an auto bend. Seperate up/down ammounts for each oscillator and glide time of the bend. Triggers on each keypress and gives that CS-80 like Yamaha sound to it.
The portamento in the L.H. section is like the typical keyboard CV glide. One unique routing is the pitch bender goes through the glide circuit. Giving portamento to the pitch bend lever. Not aware of any other synth with pitch bend glide?
Image

The ring mod would be a great addition to the CS-15. A transformer type with germanium diodes could be easily added without much change to the signal routing. Using a simple switching 1/4" socket, the external input could be wired with the ring mod signal. A 1/4" patch cord would override the ring for standard ext. input so wouldn't change any stock function. Might have to try that.

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Re: Do people really not like the Micromoog?

Post by WhinyLittleRunt » Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:03 am

ninja6485 wrote:a micromoog with two oscillators
So just this week, I borrowed a FreqBox and a CP-251 to try and duplicate the whole 'add a second oscillator to the micromoog' just for fun, and it hasn't been fun yet :roll: But, I like when these threads grow, because for me they are motivating enough to go try things on my gear that I never did before, and find I actually like the results.
I like vintage synths....

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Re: Do people really not like the Micromoog?

Post by bochelli » Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:58 pm

Kraftwerk used one so it must be good its old vintage not made in china, full size no mini keys in sight heavy got 3 of them.
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Re: Do people really not like the Micromoog?

Post by c-level » Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:54 pm

WhinyLittleRunt wrote:
ninja6485 wrote:a micromoog with two oscillators
So just this week, I borrowed a FreqBox and a CP-251 to try and duplicate the whole 'add a second oscillator to the micromoog' just for fun, and it hasn't been fun yet :roll: But, I like when these threads grow, because for me they are motivating enough to go try things on my gear that I never did before, and find I actually like the results.
results? id be interested in either hearing or hearing about the success/difficulties of your attempt?

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