When intrinsic value is surpassed by emotion... (EMS Gear)

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ppg_wavecomputer
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Re: When intrinsic value is surpassed by emotion... (EMS Gea

Post by ppg_wavecomputer » Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:57 pm

meatballfulton wrote: [...] If you have the money to own a vintage unit, even more power to you.
If you don't it won't make any difference either.

It's not about the tool, it's about the music you are using it for.

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Re: When intrinsic value is surpassed by emotion... (EMS Gea

Post by Ned Bouhalassa » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:58 am

Just look at the vintage guitars market. What happened there is happening here, albeit on a smaller scale.

I think the x0x boxes might have an intrinsic value of... 25 bucks?
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Re: When intrinsic value is surpassed by emotion... (EMS Gea

Post by HideawayStudio » Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:01 pm

meatballfulton wrote:I've been a practicing EE for 35 years and the arguments about through hole vs. SMT or handwired vs. PC are stupid, founded on misinformation and lies. Handwiring and through hole components make repair and DIY easier but they have no inherent superiority to SMT PC board construction and in fact are inferior in a number of ways.

Of far more concern is board mounted pots and jacks for mechanical (not sonic) reasons.
That was exactly my point regarding pots, sliders and sockets - the big difference between old and new is that an alarming number of modern designs have little more securing the pots and connectors to the pcb than solder pads ie. no retention to the front panel at all.

Outside of this I think my point regarding new components needs clarification - this is not about SMT vs PTH - its about vintage spec parts vs contemporary. There is a world apart from a first or second gen 741 and the latest low noise, low power, rail to rail equivalent regardless of how the silicon is packaged.

The difference is nothing like as subtle as you might think.. the sound from a late 60s / early 70s signal path is colored to say the least in your average analog. The VCS3 is bordering on the sonic equivalent of sepia.

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Re: When intrinsic value is surpassed by emotion... (EMS Gea

Post by Stab Frenzy » Thu Jun 11, 2015 4:03 am

HideawayStudio wrote:Outside of this I think my point regarding new components needs clarification - this is not about SMT vs PTH - its about vintage spec parts vs contemporary. There is a world apart from a first or second gen 741 and the latest low noise, low power, rail to rail equivalent regardless of how the silicon is packaged.

The difference is nothing like as subtle as you might think.. the sound from a late 60s / early 70s signal path is colored to say the least in your average analog. The VCS3 is bordering on the sonic equivalent of sepia.
This is true, but if you were to design a reissue you would change the circuit to get the same sound but with new components. People act as though it's completely impossible to design a circuit to sound like that any more, it's only impossible if you just straight swap old for new. If you design aiming for the same outcome it's possible, just look at all the modular gear that nails the vintage tone.

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Re: When intrinsic value is surpassed by emotion... (EMS Gea

Post by Hybrid88 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:37 am

HideawayStudio wrote:Outside of this I think my point regarding new components needs clarification - this is not about SMT vs PTH - its about vintage spec parts vs contemporary. There is a world apart from a first or second gen 741 and the latest low noise, low power, rail to rail equivalent regardless of how the silicon is packaged.

The difference is nothing like as subtle as you might think.. the sound from a late 60s / early 70s signal path is colored to say the least in your average analog. The VCS3 is bordering on the sonic equivalent of sepia.
Yes sorry that's what I meant when I said through hole, meaning the components that were used when through-hole was the standard. But yes it does have mechanical and repair advantages.

Yes, going back the the EMS I think you've nailed it, the sound is extremely coloured (from what I can tell, I've never used one personally). But the overdriven filter, spring reverb and vintage components give it a unique sound. Stab Frenzy may be quite right, but would it indeed be possible to reproduce using modern parts? I guess that would be an interesting experiment. :)

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Re: When intrinsic value is surpassed by emotion... (EMS Gea

Post by Stab Frenzy » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:11 am

Hybrid88 wrote:Yes, going back the the EMS I think you've nailed it, the sound is extremely coloured (from what I can tell, I've never used one personally). But the overdriven filter, spring reverb and vintage components give it a unique sound. Stab Frenzy may be quite right, but would it indeed be possible to reproduce using modern parts? I guess that would be an interesting experiment. :)
Just find out how each section of the circuit operates under different conditions and then recreate that behaviour with modern components. It'd be more work than coming up with a completely new design but not impossible.

Personally I'd rather see something new made but in the same spirit as the Synthi rather than an exact clone.

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Re: When intrinsic value is surpassed by emotion... (EMS Gea

Post by Hybrid88 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:26 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:
Hybrid88 wrote:Yes, going back the the EMS I think you've nailed it, the sound is extremely coloured (from what I can tell, I've never used one personally). But the overdriven filter, spring reverb and vintage components give it a unique sound. Stab Frenzy may be quite right, but would it indeed be possible to reproduce using modern parts? I guess that would be an interesting experiment. :)
Just find out how each section of the circuit operates under different conditions and then recreate that behaviour with modern components. It'd be more work than coming up with a completely new design but not impossible.

Personally I'd rather see something new made but in the same spirit as the Synthi rather than an exact clone.
Well there is that Hornet synth, but I think that misses on a few points - the Synthi is pretty much the perfect crappy (in a good way) esoteric synth - and I think that's what people like about it (apart from the sound) is that like Buchla and Serge everything it does is coming from a whole different viewpoint, as opposed to the perhaps overly familiar standards the Minimoog set for the industry.

The new Buchla Music Easel is also a similar kind of thing I think, although the pin matrix from the Synthi packs quite a lot more functionality in a small space.

For me I just want to see more quirky briefcase analog synths! :D

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Re: When intrinsic value is surpassed by emotion... (EMS Gea

Post by Stab Frenzy » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:10 am

The Hornet isn't what I'm thinking of, it's way too expensive.

I'm thinking something that's around US$500-1000, very flexible (perhaps semi-modular, that's cheaper than a pin matrix, or perhaps a matrix of 4016 switches and buttons to switch them), able to be played entirely independently without a midi controller and briefcase-able. I've been kicking around ideas of making a PCB to do this DIY, should be possible to get it all on one board.

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