Yamaha Reface

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Stab Frenzy
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Re: Yamaha Reface

Post by Stab Frenzy » Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:30 am

shaft9000 wrote:
Stab Frenzy wrote: You mean a workstation?
no,
i mean putting every non-redundant control of each unit in different sections of one UI, like an ARP quadra or Korg PolyEnsemble layout, and in several rows if need be. But two rows should suffice.
Keep the looper - or just someway to define and sync(since MIDI clock needs no channel assignment) a simple accompanying pattern - hence the advantage of simple splits and zones, but no drum-machine stuff. No proper sequencing. Add a mixer & patch section, proper-sized keybed, full I/O and it's good to go.
The only other things like this, and to a limited extent, are the Korg SV-1, and to a lesser extent the Nords. i.e. not synthesizers or romplers or arrangers, but a VA resulting in a combo/keyboard in dedicated/"bespoke" UI; no menus & minimal 'shift'-button usage, if any.

Yamaha has all the history and resources to do it as well or better than anyone...but this is what we get first (i won't say "instead" since they have other synths in the oven).

Who knows, I may dig 'em in person. Just not excited(yet) from afar.
That would be cool.

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Re: Yamaha Reface

Post by madtheory » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:25 am

Yes that would be very cool! There could be an "all in one" weighted keyboard on the way, with a full length ribbon controller. In beautiful CS80 style, but is also a DX7 with a CP70 and Electone thrown in.

But Yamaha are being clever. All the people who will whine about how heavy and expensive that will be, will buy the mini keys instead, once they've had a good gripe about them on teh tinterwebz.

Need I say it again- these are not like Korg mini-keys, they're actually very playable because they're wide. Ideal for soloing.

The DX EP sounds a lot better than the usual 4op offerings. It's more like the DX7. Not that I like the sound, but I think it shows that this FM synth is more powerful than the number of operators would imply to the whiners. The continuous sweep from positive to negative FB is a great effect.

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Re: Yamaha Reface

Post by Steve Jones » Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:24 am

About the same price as a Waldorf Blofeld desktop... They better be pretty special.
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Re: Yamaha Reface

Post by Jabberwalky » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:55 pm

madtheory wrote:The continuous sweep from positive to negative FB is a great effect.
I'm trying to grasp what exactly negative feedback sounds like. ???

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Re: Yamaha Reface

Post by madtheory » Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:26 pm

Jabberwalky wrote:I'm trying to grasp what exactly negative feedback sounds like. ???
Demo and explanation here:
http://www.soundonsound.com/news?NewsID=18556

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Re: Yamaha Reface

Post by Jabberwalky » Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:06 am

Cool! Thanks. He presented that really well. He didn't mention the much more flexible modulation on the new one. Running pitch to only one operator is really great for slow evolving sounds.

The touch buttons seem sort of annoying. Perhaps they are still calibrating those. I wouldn't want to swipe 4-5 times to reach min-max values.

It looks like you can control those with CC values. Modding decay on the fly with the sequencer is great for percussive/bass patterns.

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Re: Yamaha Reface

Post by Hybrid88 » Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:09 am

Steve Jones wrote:About the same price as a Waldorf Blofeld desktop... They better be pretty special.
Well yes, but at least with yamaha you know it'll work right out of the box, I hear the Blofeld is one of the buggiest things out.

I agree though, I think these are just too expensive to make sense to most people, if they dropped it by around $200 it would be much more appealing.

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Re: Yamaha Reface

Post by vladimotor » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:42 pm

Image

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Re: Yamaha Reface

Post by shaft9000 » Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:03 pm

somebody loves their virus polar
2600.solus.modcan a.eurorack.cs60.JP8.Juno6.A6.sunsyn.volcakeys.jd990.tb303.x0xb0x.revolution.
999.m1am1.RY30.svc350.memotron

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shaft9000.bandcamp.com <- spacemusic album
youtube.com/shaft9000 <- various synth demos and studies

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Re: Yamaha Reface

Post by CS_TBL » Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:20 pm

Right, I just returned from the dealer demo (aboard a cruise ship, no less!). Played 'm all. Talked with the original product manager from JP for quite a while. The basic intent was to create something cool in a small package. Bigger keys would've meant that the product would've got bigger. With a special strap, the idea is also that you could play the Reface as a kind of keytar.

So, experiences:

- The mini keys.. the main problem is that I'm used to normal keys, with which I can play blindly. With the mini keys, my eyes need to stare at the keys permanently.
- The CS has quite some sounds aboard, it's all in the texture slider. To my feeling, the envelope rate sliders were linear, not exponential, and esp. with fast decays I found the resolution to be on the narrow side.
- The DX is what it promises to be, 4-op with 4x feedback. One thing I found odd, which I expressed to the product designer, was that you couldn't just increase/decrease the operator ratios with an easy tap or key, you have to do a big slide on the touchpad, and if your ratio had a fractional part in it, you'll end up with that same fractional part. E.g. if the display says 2.13, then a full sweep-up will end up at 3.13 .. for FM this is actually odd as most voices are made with even ratios.
- The CP is, I think, the most practical one of the four, for the sample reason that such a piano sound suits any band. The keys though.. the keys.. The sounds them self are nice and quite playable, and the effects are good
- The YC.. while it sounds good, like the CP you would miss a bigger keyboard. I wouldn't be surprised if this one just bombs
- Their weight is nearly nothing. All four were stacked on top of each other in a display that'll also be available to the retail shops, and after bending down to play the lowest one, it occurred to me that I could as well just swap the keyboards. And indeed, they weren't connected, so I just put the active keyboard on top. That's one thing they do well: you can make music everywhere.

Conclusion.. I wouldn't want one, but I'm sure there are people who want to put them to good use. It's just that I don't know who they are.. :)
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Re: Yamaha Reface

Post by meatballfulton » Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:06 am

So did the keys feel as good as Yamaha is touting?
I listened to Hatfield and the North at Rainbow. They were very wonderful and they made my heart a prisoner.

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Re: Yamaha Reface

Post by CS_TBL » Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:30 am

Hard to say, it's overshadowed by:
- keys just being smaller, so somewhat impractical for blind playing for seasoned players
- the key-down travel is obviously shorter so it's less easy to pinpoint a specific velocity compared to regular keys
- I'd wish for more octaves..

Well, maybe it's not about being overshadowed, maybe it's simply just those three.

PS. As for size: on a regular keyboard I can hit C' - E'' with thumb and pink, while on the Reface I could hit C' - G''.
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Re: Yamaha Reface

Post by madtheory » Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:34 pm

Here's a "seasoned player" using the Yamaha keys for what they're designed to do:

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Re: Yamaha Reface

Post by meatballfulton » Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:50 pm

It's pretty obvious that J.H. has developed a totally different playing style for the keytar. If you watch his right hand, it's more like playing an accordion than playing a piano.
I listened to Hatfield and the North at Rainbow. They were very wonderful and they made my heart a prisoner.

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Re: Yamaha Reface

Post by madtheory » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:43 pm

True, I guess it is like accordion. But I think it's really not hard to do that, if you've learned piano. A little bit of practice, and good sound design skills.

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