Synths with both keys and step sequencers?

[Zamise]

The Yamaha Motif sequencer has step entry as an option, but no step editing.

I believe it is called the Event Editor and it is outside the step record mode where you can do more fine tuning/editing of your steps/sequenced event entries. I could be wrong, but at least that is how it works and what it is called on a lot of the predecessors to Yamaha's Motif sequencers. I do not have a Motif. If you are talking about stepping in arped notes than perhaps that is different and I do not know about that at all them.

[meatballfulton]

Event list editing is not a step editor. It just displays the individual MIDI messages (notes, controllers, sysex, etc.) in order and allows editing each message in excruciating detail. It's not like editing a Volca or Electribe (or even an ESQ-1).

[Zamise]

Electribes are grid/x0x, not step either, tho right? Not sure about the rest in your list, but point taken, however you can delete and backspace and re-enter notes with dif settings in step rec mode, which isn't too much different than editing a parm or note on a step. It isn't really a classic step seq either because it bounces the length of the note you are entering and not to the next step, there aren't too many other parameters to choose either while in step record mode on the Yams. That is one of the reasons I really like about their step sequencing on them so much compared to other methods of step sequencing and I'm being a bit defensive about it. I love their step sequencers. Anyhow, they are what I think of when I think "step sequencers". You can have programmable arpeggiators, and then what I'd call modular step sequencer which is different too, not sure what else to call them but I don't like calling them step sequencers. It implies a more robust sequencing method in my opinion. People are probably going to keep calling all the different ways or whatever they want to keep calling it, so I'll have to just deal with it

P.S. Do the Motifs have a Groove template editor? Maybe not technically a step editor either, but if so you might be able to use that more comparatively to an old school, 16 step, real time step editing, step seq.

[meatballfulton]

We can go into a rathole here about Yamaha sequencers but I'd rather not. That's why I called it a grey area.

Grid Groove: Motif, ES, MO, MOX and MOXF all have it. The XS and XF have Play FX which is not based on a grid (affects all notes the same) but adds quantization and swing to the note, clock, gate and velocity offsets.

[synthparts]

All the synths I listed on the first page have proper step-time seqs. Another option is to get an external sequencer that has step-time entry. I recommend the MC-202 or CSQ-100/600 for CV/Gate and the MSQ-700 for MIDI or DCB...

[musden]

Radikal technologies accelerator!!!!!!!!!!!

[SeventhStar]

if I realtime record a very sloppily played line with a midi sequencer and then quantize it to death and remove all velocity and aftertouch, did it just become a "step sequencer"?

No, step and real time are two different types of sequencing. A true real time sequence, has no steps.. You are not placing notes on steps. Quantizing doesn't add steps to the sequence either.

In the Sequential world, and I assume with other synths as well, but I could be wrong, the number of steps is really limited. Even on the new Prophet 6, only 64 steps (Possibly it can put 6 notes on each step, which would still only total 384 notes broken into 64 steps). I think the Pro One only had 40 steps, with 1 note per step. Don't remember the Pro 2 specs, but I'm sure it is less than the P6.. Even the old Multi-Trak real time sequencer has a 1600 note capacity.

A "good" sequencer can do both anyways.

Does that mean my Multi-Trak has a "bad" sequencer because it can't do both? It is also a 6-part multi-timbral real time sequencer. It can't do step sequencing, but that is not its intended purpose.

My Arturia Modular V has a true step sequencer, which I have not fully investigated or played with yet. It can be heard in this awesome 100% Modular V track on Soundcloud:

I think that track has had over 1,000 listens, a third of which have probably been by me on my iPhone. Those newer iPhone earbuds have incredible bass, for such small speakers..

[pflosi]

if I realtime record a very sloppily played line with a midi sequencer and then quantize it to death and remove all velocity and aftertouch, did it just become a "step sequencer"?

No, step and real time are two different types of sequencing. A true real time sequence, has no steps.. You are not placing notes on steps. Quantizing doesn't add steps to the sequence either.

So where are the notes recorded then, into a vacuum? Every sequencer has "steps", ultimately defined by its maximum ppqn resolution. No matter whether you can actually access them or not.

So I'm still waiting for your definition. Or better, the one of the OP, since we still don't know what it is precisely that he's looking for.

A "good" sequencer can do both anyways.

Does that mean my Multi-Trak has a "bad" sequencer because it can't do both?

Yes

[Broadwave]

I had one of these once. I wish I could find another

[SeventhStar]

So where are the notes recorded then, into a vacuum?

No, they are recorded in RAM memory chips, at least on my unit.

So I'm still waiting for your definition.

Million Dollar Question, and my 50 cent answer:

What defines a Step Sequencer? Any sequencer that is incapable of recording notes, in a high enough resolution of Parts Per Quarter Note, to capture them in the exact sequence, in which they were entered (via human fingers, using all possible timing and rhythm structures that human hands are capable of), without modifying their relational position among one another (to be noticeably different, to the player, when the sequence is played back from the sequencer's memory), hence altering the sequence so that it no longer matches that which was originally played during the sequencer recording session.

"Stepped" = "Aliased" = "Coarse"
"Real Time" = "Anti-aliased" = "Fine"

[pflosi]

That's better

[knolan]

Korg OASYS and Kronos - polyphonic step sequencer in each synth engine.

For example, AL-1 is 80 note polyphonic - and each voice has its own step sequencer - so that's 80 step sequencers (very powerful if controlled on a per note/voice basis).