Roland Boutique

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desmond
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Re: Roland Boutique

Post by desmond » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:04 pm

...and also those who happen to really love the JP8's character, which is unlike any other synth.

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Re: Roland Boutique

Post by salwa » Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:49 pm

Interesting photo:
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Re: Roland Boutique

Post by meatballfulton » Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:53 pm

desmond wrote:...and also those who happen to really love the JP8's character, which is unlike any other synth.
Except it's missing things like the multimode filter, so even if the emulation is accurate it's still not capable of many sounds the original could make.

With USB or battery power, 1/8" I/O and only 4 voices this really isn't being aimed at the folks who want a real analog Jupiter.

Just saying ;)
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Re: Roland Boutique

Post by desmond » Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:15 pm

meatballfulton wrote:Except it's missing things like the multimode filter, so even if the emulation is accurate it's still not capable of many sounds the original could make.
Eh? The JP8 has a high pass filter, and a low pass filter switchable between 12dB/oct and 24dB/oct - exactly what the JP-08 has (and also Arturia's JP-8V).

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Re: Roland Boutique

Post by meatballfulton » Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:53 pm

My mistake then, I thought the Jupiter 8 had a multimode filter same as the Jupiter 6.

OK, then this thing is just perfect :dancer:
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Re: Roland Boutique

Post by desmond » Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:57 pm

meatballfulton wrote:My mistake then, I thought the Jupiter 8 had a multimode filter same as the Jupiter 6.

OK, then this thing is just perfect :dancer:
As has been said already, the JP-08 has all the JP8 stuff apart from the arpeggiator, one of the poly modes, and obviously the extra voices... It *should* be able to do all the sounds the LP8 is capable of...

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Re: Roland Boutique

Post by philip » Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:13 am

salwa wrote:Interesting photo:
Image
that looks cool

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Re: Roland Boutique

Post by masstronaut » Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:23 pm

meatballfulton wrote:i wonder how much the DSP for ACB costs that they can't eke out more than 4 voices...this is the 21st century after all. Or maybe they are targeting people who only have one hand ;)
Yeah. Ten (?) years on from those Creamware ASB boxes, which these are reminiscent of, and the polyphony isn't close. But if that's in favour of very high quality modelling that's a curious choice in a 'budget' device. Not to say it's a bad one, but really, how much does another DSP cost, relatively speaking. They are cute though.

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Re: Roland Boutique

Post by masstronaut » Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:25 pm

Actually looking at that photo I wonder if maybe they can each be used as voice slaves for any of the models.

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Re: Roland Boutique

Post by desmond » Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:34 pm

masstronaut wrote:how much does another DSP cost, relatively speaking.
Ok, well, lets take a hypothetical, and suppose as speculated above the JP-08 has two ESC2 chips because it has more synth parameters than the other two and costs $100 more.

(Bear that in mind, in our hypothetical situation, there is 1 extra ESC2 chip, and the result is $100 more. So probably one ESC2 can handle two voices of JP-08 modelling).

Let's also suppose that we are not assuming that Roland are limiting the voice count for cynical marketing reasons, and that the ESC2 is being maxed out - so we can't just add extra voices by software.

Ok, let's double the voice count. Add two more ESC2 chips (and necessary connecting infrastructure components etc). Chip costs if probably $10 each. Only, they are quite big chips, so now we have to redesign the circuit board and actually, there isn't space inside there for four of those chips and the heat/cooling required, so we have to make our case bigger (which also increases the weight, the cost of shipping materials and so on). It *all* has a knock on effect.

Our "how simply can it be to add the extra voices" probably means our required selling price has risen by $250 - too expensive for a small, fun impulse buy product.

Companies make these choices very carefully, and though they may not in some cases make sense to the end user, there are usually very specific reasons for them.

I hate the 4-voice limitation too, but that's what it is for now, and you have to make your purchase decisions (or not) based on them, or waiting for something better somewhere down the line.. At least we have an option, which is a good thing.

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Re: Roland Boutique

Post by masstronaut » Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:03 pm

It's more that it's interesting that the priority is ostensibly high quality modelling, given the price, and assuming they are not artificially limiting them, rather than impressive polyphony. Ten years is a long time in DSP and the Creamware boxes (for e.g.) were doing 12 voices. At a higher price yes, but also presumably a shorter manufacturing run.

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Re: Roland Boutique

Post by desmond » Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:18 pm

Yep, and Roland's ACB modelling as debuted in the Aira range has seemed pretty capable and accurate in their plugins so far - so I have good reason to expect this thing to sound pretty good.

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Re: Roland Boutique

Post by vicd » Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:58 pm

desmond wrote:
masstronaut wrote:how much does another DSP cost, relatively speaking.
Ok, well, lets take a hypothetical, and suppose as speculated above the JP-08 has two ESC2 chips because it has more synth parameters than the other two and costs $100 more.

(Bear that in mind, in our hypothetical situation, there is 1 extra ESC2 chip, and the result is $100 more. So probably one ESC2 can handle two voices of JP-08 modelling).

Let's also suppose that we are not assuming that Roland are limiting the voice count for cynical marketing reasons, and that the ESC2 is being maxed out - so we can't just add extra voices by software.

Ok, let's double the voice count. Add two more ESC2 chips (and necessary connecting infrastructure components etc). Chip costs if probably $10 each. Only, they are quite big chips, so now we have to redesign the circuit board and actually, there isn't space inside there for four of those chips and the heat/cooling required, so we have to make our case bigger (which also increases the weight, the cost of shipping materials and so on). It *all* has a knock on effect.

Our "how simply can it be to add the extra voices" probably means our required selling price has risen by $250 - too expensive for a small, fun impulse buy product.

Companies make these choices very carefully, and though they may not in some cases make sense to the end user, there are usually very specific reasons for them.

I hate the 4-voice limitation too, but that's what it is for now, and you have to make your purchase decisions (or not) based on them, or waiting for something better somewhere down the line.. At least we have an option, which is a good thing.
At the times when everybody and their moms and their dogs and their cats were doing VA, the baseline products shipped with some meager number of voices. But then you had an option of adding "expansion boards" with extra DSPs (at some silly prices). Or you'd buy the "pro" version which was already maxed out. Remember Korg Z-1, the Supernovas, Nord Modular?

How much do you think would cost Roland making such "scalable" design?

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Re: Roland Boutique

Post by desmond » Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:41 pm

vicd wrote:How much do you think would cost Roland making such "scalable" design?
They already built that in in these units - the expansion is to buy a second (or third, or...) unit, and the software will then spread the voice load and patch parameters across all units. Want a 32-voice Jupiter-8? Buy 8 of 'em... ;)

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Re: Roland Boutique

Post by Kidney05 » Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:29 pm

masstronaut wrote:It's more that it's interesting that the priority is ostensibly high quality modelling, given the price, and assuming they are not artificially limiting them, rather than impressive polyphony. Ten years is a long time in DSP and the Creamware boxes (for e.g.) were doing 12 voices. At a higher price yes, but also presumably a shorter manufacturing run.
If they didn't sound like the originals (which is why they have the high quality modeling), what would be the point? Why would you even bother to have 3 units at all? The point is you want vintage sounds and interface (which are unique to each of the instruments emulated), which we know they can (most likely) provide based on the SH-101 emulations, with reliability and small price and size.

To me it's clear that if this sells well they'll produce more expensive and fledged out gear. The AIRAs were the gateway.

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