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Re: Mood model D reissue

Posted: Fri May 20, 2016 10:47 am
by AnalogKid
wiss wrote:
AnalogKid wrote:How does this Model D re-issue differ in sound/features from the Moog Voyager Old School?

Image
1. This was built on the Voyager design, not the Model D's design
2. I would assume the Old School circuit board was pre-preprinted
So, does the Model D (vintage or re-issue) sound that much better than the Voyager (Old School or otherwise) that it's worth it to pay more money? Wasn't the idea behind the Voyager to bring back (and update) a classic?

Re: Moog model D reissue

Posted: Fri May 20, 2016 12:30 pm
by wiss
AnalogKid wrote:
wiss wrote:
AnalogKid wrote:How does this Model D re-issue differ in sound/features from the Moog Voyager Old School?

Image
1. This was built on the Voyager design, not the Model D's design
2. I would assume the Old School circuit board was pre-preprinted
So, does the Model D (vintage or re-issue) sound that much better than the Voyager (Old School or otherwise) that it's worth it to pay more money? Wasn't the idea behind the Voyager to bring back (and update) a classic?
Both are fantastic machines and you would be happy with either one.

Re: Mood model D reissue

Posted: Fri May 20, 2016 9:11 pm
by Sir Ruff
garranimal wrote:The original had tons of matched transistors. Will the new ones be doing this, or some new voice design? Surface mount technology, or the big old stuff?

The photo I saw on Matrixsynth was inconclusive.
Apparently they've had a run of new transistors made, to exact specs. So that should not only help nail the original sound, but also limit the intra-unit variability which I guess was a thing back when they were still being made. Super props to Moog for this--as someone who could never come to grips with paying ~$4k for even a fully refurbed one, this is a total no-brainer!

Re: Moog model D reissue

Posted: Fri May 20, 2016 10:47 pm
by Cumulus
Only one note at a time and no presets?

I'll pass.

Re: Moog model D reissue

Posted: Fri May 20, 2016 10:49 pm
by Bitexion
Don't worry Cumulus, just get the Arturia Minimoog V, you get as much polyphony as you computer can take, and thousands of presets. It's also alot cheaper :geek:

Re: Mood model D reissue

Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 11:02 pm
by knolan
AnalogKid wrote:
wiss wrote:
AnalogKid wrote:How does this Model D re-issue differ in sound/features from the Moog Voyager Old School?

Image
1. This was built on the Voyager design, not the Model D's design
2. I would assume the Old School circuit board was pre-preprinted
So, does the Model D (vintage or re-issue) sound that much better than the Voyager (Old School or otherwise) that it's worth it to pay more money? Wasn't the idea behind the Voyager to bring back (and update) a classic?

Yes - the Model D will sound significantly better than the Voyager for two reasons:

1. It is a better synthesizer with better sounding oscillators and filters

2. It's an iconic sound that has been used on hundreds of iconic tracks (because it's so good) and so it will make (appropriate) synth lines sound better - in the same way that a Steinway sounds better than a Yamaha Grand Pianos, or a Fender-strat sounds better than a copy, or an actual B3 sounds better than later similar organs.

The Voyager is excellent - but it's just another synth. The Model D is part of music history in a significant (and tangible) way.

Re: Moog model D reissue

Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 4:01 pm
by madtheory
wiss wrote:Both are fantastic machines and you would be happy with either one.
Agreed. Synth expert Gordon Reid would agree also, that there is not really any difference in tone between Minimoog and the Voyager:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun03/a ... oyager.asp
Also this argument was done to death back in 2003 when the Voyager was issued.

@colmon: meh. It was old the first time.

Re: Moog model D reissue

Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 4:43 pm
by Hybrid88
This is just one mans opinion here, but I really disliked the Voyager and loved the Model D enough to buy one, couldn't have had a more polarising experience between the two.

That's not to say the Voyager is a bad synth but I do think that it's more of an engineers (i.e. technically thought out) synth whereas the Model D is a much more simplistic and intuitive design that doesn't overcomplicate simple things. Just take a look at the components and layout inside a Voyager and compare it to the Model D and you'll see what I mean, it kinda just lost its way.

...and the awful special edition colours and LED backlights, lets hope they don't keep doing that s**t.

Re: Moog model D reissue

Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 5:13 pm
by madtheory
Yay! A 13 year old argument. I think the real reason I'm engaging with this dead horse is that I really want a Voyager but I can't afford it :)

Anyway! :lol: I disagree with your simplicity argument. What the h**l has component layout got to do with it? Are you buying in to hifi magazine bullshit about minimalistic signal paths? You can approach the Voyager quite simply if you ignore the menus and patch memories. Doesn't get any simpler than that (except the envelopes are better on the Voyager).

For Moog, I think re-issuing a Mini warts and all means that there is no room at all to argue that it is different to the original. Whereas Bob Moog's intent with the Voyager was to retain the classic and update it. It worked- and if you're prepared to do a little head scratching, there's a huge amount of scope under those menus.

Re: Moog model D reissue

Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 5:23 pm
by Swayze
Wasn't the filter on the original model d accidentally overdriven because of a minor miscalculation? Can anyone confirm that the new one replicates this marvelous mistake achieving the same tonal quality we all love? The "buzungas" as colmon would put it, although I suspect he's never actually seen or touched a pair in real life...

Re: Moog model D reissue

Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 5:29 pm
by knolan
@MadTheory - I'm buying a Model D, by credit card, the moment it's released. I'll happily go hungry and without shoes for months to own one. I'm totally earnest (so I have to convince myself it's better !! ) :-) (but it is ;) )


Actually - to me - any struggle with why one should spend the money on a Model D doesn't come with comparisons with Voyager, but with Monark and Arturia MinimoogV. I own both of these and they are both genuinely amazing. The V3 Minimoog just released by Arturia as part of V Collection 5 is, to my ears, improved even more. So there are no shortage of amazing Model D options these days.

Re: Moog model D reissue

Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 6:42 pm
by madtheory
Hi Kevin. Fair play to you :) Yes, Monark is wonderful. It has all of the annoying limitations too. The envelopes and the pitch bend in particular :lol:
Swayze wrote:The "buzungas" as colmon would put it, although I suspect he's never actually seen or touched a pair in real life...
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Moog model D reissue

Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 2:21 am
by Cumulus
The price point is awesome.

If I didn't already have an old Model D I would be saving my pennies for a new one.

Re: Moog model D reissue

Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 2:19 pm
by Hybrid88
madtheory wrote:Yay! A 13 year old argument. I think the real reason I'm engaging with this dead horse is that I really want a Voyager but I can't afford it :)

Anyway! :lol: I disagree with your simplicity argument. What the h**l has component layout got to do with it? Are you buying in to hifi magazine bullshit about minimalistic signal paths? You can approach the Voyager quite simply if you ignore the menus and patch memories. Doesn't get any simpler than that (except the envelopes are better on the Voyager).

For Moog, I think re-issuing a Mini warts and all means that there is no room at all to argue that it is different to the original. Whereas Bob Moog's intent with the Voyager was to retain the classic and update it. It worked- and if you're prepared to do a little head scratching, there's a huge amount of scope under those menus.
lol I forget how little things change around here, mate it's just my impression having tried the two.

That's fair enough if that's what you want to think, but it's a common saying to hear in engineering that the simplest solution to a problem is often the best one. I think that way when I think of the Model D and the Voyager, one to me is like a classic Strat/Les Paul/whatever, simple unrefined, all you need and nothing you don't. The other is the polar opposite to me, loads of s**t you don't need and unremarkable at its core. My comment on the design, having been into electronics for a while and looked at the guts of a fair few synths you get an idea what makes them tick. The Voyager just seems messy and overcomplicated for what it's trying to achieve to me, the component count alone is ridiculous for a mono synth, and yet it still fails to deliver. Again this is my opinion, you're welcome to believe whatever you choose ;)

Re: Moog model D reissue

Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 7:05 pm
by jaypodesta
Cumulus wrote:The price point is awesome.

If I didn't already have an old Model D I would be saving my pennies for a new one.
+1 I thought I was crazy buying one at the time but wouldn't part with it for any other synth now.