D-50 Sound Track Patch on Super JV?

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D-50 Sound Track Patch on Super JV?

Post by vinyl_junkie » Sat May 21, 2016 12:07 pm

A hoi hoi, just wondering can any one with a D-50 give me any pointers on what waves and structure was used to make the Sound Track patch on the D-50?

I have a JV-2080 and I wonder if it could be accurately emulated on it, any thoughts?

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Re: D-50 Sound Track Patch on Super JV?

Post by desmond » Sat May 21, 2016 9:56 pm

So, yeah, exactly this was a pet project of mine for a while (which I haven't been back to for ages). There's a thread on here about it I'll dig out in a sec:-

Edit: http://www.vintagesynth.com/forum/viewt ... =1&t=33064

I love that patch, and wanted to see whether it could be recreated on my XV-5080 (which is similar to the 2080).
I had example Soundtrack samples, but not great ones at the time - I have some better ones now to compare but that patch is really quite dynamic to velocity etc so samples are a bit static - Ideally I'd like to borrow someone's D50/550 for a week or two to really get stuck in.

Anyway, I had the parameters of the patch in various editors so I could see the structure etc. It's essentially two square/pulse layers, tuned to fifths, with very specific envelopes. I can get close to the raw wave sound with certain waves in the 5080 (I'd need to revisit my patch and get back looking at this to refresh my memory). I'd made up something rough but really ran against a wall with good examples to compare it to at the time, so put it on pause.

If you want to join forces and work on this, we can give it a stab together, because I'd *love* a good version of this, without having to get a D-50 just for it.

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Re: D-50 Sound Track Patch on Super JV?

Post by gcoudert » Sat May 21, 2016 9:58 pm

There's a pretty good rendition of it in the GM presets!
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Re: D-50 Sound Track Patch on Super JV?

Post by desmond » Sat May 21, 2016 10:07 pm

gcoudert wrote:There's a pretty good rendition of it in the GM presets!
No, it's very poor.

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Re: D-50 Sound Track Patch on Super JV?

Post by gcoudert » Sun May 22, 2016 6:52 pm

desmond wrote:
gcoudert wrote:There's a pretty good rendition of it in the GM presets!
No, it's very poor.
I am referring to GM:098, which is a VERY good approximation of the original D50 patch. The 'Soundtraque' one isn't great.
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Re: D-50 Sound Track Patch on Super JV?

Post by desmond » Sun May 22, 2016 7:19 pm

gcoudert wrote:I am referring to GM:098, which is a VERY good approximation of the original D50 patch. The 'Soundtraque' one isn't great.
Yep, I know the exact patch you are referring, and I mentioned it (along with a reference to the other Soundtraque patch) in my original post on the topic, and yes, it is an approximation of the D50 patch, but it is not a good one, and in no way is as good as the original patch I'd like to program.

I'll do some audio demos when I get back home...

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Re: D-50 Sound Track Patch on Super JV?

Post by desmond » Mon May 23, 2016 1:44 pm

Ok, so here's a few audio example to see where I'm coming from:

This is a sample of the D-50 Soundtrack - it's from a sample set so a bit static, and it wasn't sampled with FX so I added a bit of reverb for comfort. But you can hear the fairly unique, interesting character of the patch (first three notes are single notes, then a few chords).



The next clip is the XV-5080's "Soundtracque" patch, which is clearly inspired by the classic D-50 preset (it's a fifths pad) but it's smoother and more generic - kind of a somewhere in the middle between the D50 Soundtrack, and the classic JX Soundtrack, a smooth, regular, non-fifths pad.



Next up is the GM "Soundtrack" patch, again from the XV-5080. While again it's a fifths pad inspired from the D-50, it's a pretty bad impression:



Then here is where I had left my work-in-progress XV version of the D-50 patch, just in whatever state I left it from last time. Obviously I've started to get it in the ballpark but it's nowhere near close yet.



And just for contrast, here is the old, completely different JX-8P "Soundtrack" patch - again, a classic patch, but a very different sound from the D-50 Soundtrack. (This one is from PG-8X).


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Re: D-50 Sound Track Patch on Super JV?

Post by ninja6485 » Mon May 23, 2016 3:46 pm

Sounds like the lower tones of the D50 patch have more release than the xv recreation. Are your envelopes adjusted correctly? The D50 patch really rings out, while the xv is much more restrained. A little more release might help a lot. The d also seems to have fuzzier softer (darker) highs and maybe a bit more portmento? ...although it's difficult to tell whether what I'm hearing has more to do with the envelopes. Also, did you replicate any of the d50's digital effects that play with the original patch? The xv patch does sound a lot thinner and more nasal too. I wonder if you could borrow parameters from the xv's soundtrack patch to correct some of the issues with the recreation.
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

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Re: D-50 Sound Track Patch on Super JV?

Post by desmond » Mon May 23, 2016 3:57 pm

ninja6485 wrote:Sounds like the lower tones of the D50 patch have more release than the xv recreation. Are your envelopes adjusted correctly? The D50 patch really rings out, while the xv is much more restrained. A little more release might help a lot.
As I said, this isn't my recreation yet, it's a posting of my work in progress patch back from when I was looking at this a few years ago, to jog my memory. I only posted it for interest - this is in no way a finished patch, and is not even close yet.
ninja6485 wrote:Also, did you replicate any of the d50's digital effects that play with the original patch? The xv patch does sound a lot thinner and more nasal too. I wonder if you could borrow parameters from the xv's soundtrack patch to correct some of the issues with the recreation.
No, no effects or anything yet. The key thing is the envelopes, overall tone character and balance between upper and lower tones and that was what I was looking at when I last worked on this. I have the D50 parameters, but envelope parameters don't really tell you much as you don't know what the envelope response is - that's why ideally I'd love to have a D50 to work with and compare. As I said above, this may be something we can work on together to try and get a good emulation, which is why I posted this stuff again...

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Re: D-50 Sound Track Patch on Super JV?

Post by Baus » Mon May 23, 2016 8:09 pm

Nice topic.

The best copy of this sound that I can find is in my Roland D-10, and it's called Soundtrack.

For both partial sets (1&2) (3&4) Structure 8 was used. Structure 8 in the D-10 is the same as
Structure 1 in the D-50: Two partials that can be panned in the stereo field.

I think the key component that makes this sound, and what seems to be missing in the JV-2080/XV-3080/5080, is the fact that the Saw wave in both the D-10 and D-50 can be Pulsewidth modulated.

Robin
Last edited by Baus on Mon May 23, 2016 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: D-50 Sound Track Patch on Super JV?

Post by Bitexion » Mon May 23, 2016 8:10 pm

I've got a D-50 right here in my livingroom, but it's hard to work on sounds over the internet I guess. Mine doesn't have this exact patch in it but I could import it via MIDI if I can be bothered to dig out a MIDI cable from the basement :P

Also the saw wave on the D-50 isn't really a saw shape, it's more like a shark fin if you look at it in an oscilloscope. Creates its own harmonics that is alot more "heavy" and versatle than your standard saw. It's a kind of mix between saw and square, which also happen to be the only "analogue" waveforms in the synth.

It is strange how this exact patch is so hard to find a patch sheet for on internet. I can find patch sheets for loads of other random sounds but not this one, so I could just input the parameters into my synth.
Last edited by Bitexion on Mon May 23, 2016 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: D-50 Sound Track Patch on Super JV?

Post by desmond » Mon May 23, 2016 8:16 pm

Baus wrote:I think the key component that makes this sound, and what seems to be missing in the JV-2080/XV-3080/5080, is the fact that the Saw wave in both the D-10 and D-50 can be Pulsewidth modulated.
Yes. It's the one thing missing (as I talk about in the first version of this thread) - and it's why I was experimenting with pulse waves rather than the saws to get closer to the raw timbres. We'll see how close it can be got, or if something else can be done. Note - I chose the XV to do this because a) I have one, and b) it's got that "Roland" sound, albeit a little more hifi than the D50.

However, should a different softsynth be a good candidate, I'd look at it there too... but I'll stick with the XV for now, see where we can get...
(Heck, let's do a "Soundtrack" for *every* synth capable... ;)
Last edited by desmond on Mon May 23, 2016 8:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: D-50 Sound Track Patch on Super JV?

Post by desmond » Mon May 23, 2016 8:17 pm

Bitexion wrote:It is strange how this exact patch is so hard to find a patch sheet for on internet. I can find patch sheets for loads of other random sounds but not this one, so I could just input the parameters into my synth.
Well I have the sysex for the patch, so I can open it in a D50 editor (eg SoundDiver) to see the values...

What would be interesting, for those with a D50, is to see how much the PWM affects the patch - ie, turn off/reduce the PWM, and does the character change *significantly*, or not a lot? (audio clips would be great, too!)

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Re: D-50 Sound Track Patch on Super JV?

Post by Baus » Mon May 23, 2016 9:12 pm

Oh, sorry Desmond, I was not aware of the first part of the discussion. My bad.

Funny thing: I checked the PWM in the D-10 and it has a value of 29 for all 4 partials. However, the PWM starts taking place only with values over 50 :D

Challenge accepted! I will work on it as well. I have a XV-3080 here.

Good luck!

Robin.

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Re: D-50 Sound Track Patch on Super JV?

Post by desmond » Mon May 23, 2016 9:27 pm

Go team! :)
Baus wrote:Funny thing: I checked the PWM in the D-10 and it has a value of 29 for all 4 partials. However, the PWM starts taking place only with values over 50 :D
There may be other modulators in there, perhaps? - eg, PWM modulated by velocity, or an envelope or something (I haven't yet re-looked at the parameters in an editor to refresh my memory)...

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