Roland 909 Day

Discussions about anything analog, digital, MIDI, synth technology, techniques, theories and more.
User avatar
Stab Frenzy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9723
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:41 pm
Gear: Eurorack, RYTM, Ultranova, many FX
Location: monster island*
Contact:

Re: Roland 909 Day

Post by Stab Frenzy » Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:31 am

ninja6485 wrote:
MyKeyZ wrote:Can we please just get an analog 909 that sounds good?
It exists! I have one. It's called the TR-909.
You have an analogue 909? That's pretty amazing. What does it do for cymbals?

Also, love it when a big company releases a new product and people with less than 50 posts come here to complain about it. :D

User avatar
griffin avid
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 1568
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:08 am
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Roland 909 Day

Post by griffin avid » Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:03 pm

I dunno about that video. For one of the early passes, the TR-8 (green meanie) sounded best, but on everything else the original TR sounded louder. And even on the last, it sounded like the Greenie was lower in volume.
I'm hearing the volume changes more drastically than tonal deficits.

And the newest piece sounded like it was far away and muffled every-time. hmmmm
My eyebrow is raised at whoever made that video.
One of you audio-file-scientists needs to pull down the audio and run through some of your gizmos. lol
Music Product: Better Sounds for Beats http://www.StudioAVX.com
Music Production: Resources and Research http://www.ProducersEdgeMagazine.com
Music Produced: Abstract Hip Hop Sci-Fi: http://www.TheDynamicUniverse.com

User avatar
griffin avid
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 1568
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:08 am
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Roland 909 Day

Post by griffin avid » Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:14 pm



Roland TR-09 Drum Machine In Depth Review


11:08 / 30:50
Roland TR-09 Drum Machine In Depth Review
Kosmic
Kosmic
52,755
859 views

Start at:
Published on Sep 9, 2016

Leonard from Kosmic Sound takes you on a tour of the TR-09 Drum Machine.
Buy online from Kosmic here: http://bit.ly/2chXsYy
0:29 A little bit of history
0:54 The tech inside
1:14 Comparison to the TR-8
1:55 Front controls
2:50 Back of the unit
3:32 Upgrades from the TR-909
4:10 Let's play something
5:39 Pattern demo
5:55 New built-in compressor
6:30 Instrument sounds
8:24 Comparison to TR-8
9:09 Tuning instruments
9:56 Delay on the ride
10:35 Sequencing a pattern
12:50 Sequencing - Dynamic in the steps
13:33 Sequencing - Controlling the hihat
14:43 Sequencing - Changing pitch
15:57 Sequencing - Bass lines with toms
18:05 Sequencing - Creating a build up
19:58 Crash cymbal
20:48 Controlling shuffle
21:20 Flam
22:15 Alternate ways to enter a pattern
23:14 Copying one pattern to another
24:52 Cycling and grouping patterns
25:11 Creating a track
27:00 Total Accent control
27:49 Computer integration with the TR-09
29:57 Built-in stand
Music Product: Better Sounds for Beats http://www.StudioAVX.com
Music Production: Resources and Research http://www.ProducersEdgeMagazine.com
Music Produced: Abstract Hip Hop Sci-Fi: http://www.TheDynamicUniverse.com

User avatar
MyKeyZ
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:46 pm

Re: Roland 909 Day

Post by MyKeyZ » Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:19 pm

Stab Frenzy wrote: Also, love it when a big company releases a new product and people with less than 50 posts come here to complain about it. :D
So what? I owned a piece of gear and used it, I can have an opinion about it. I owned all of the Roland Aira gear and sold all of it, except for the MX-1 mixer. I like the effects and works great with Ableton and recording my hardware. If there was one other piece I would maybe keep from what I used, it would be the System-1m since the keybed of the System-1 was c**p. That keybed was the biggest sign to me with amount of "care" from Roland with their products. The TB-3 was better for sequencing other gear than as a 303. I felt the TR-8 was lacking and not great at what it was suppose to be emulating.

If needing to use post counts, that is more telling about the quality of Roland's product. Sadly, discussion only seems okay if someone agrees with you. If not, folks start grasping as straws like post counts like it somehow negates a person's experience with playing or hearing a piece of gear.

It seems more like Roland launched a product line (Aira) that it either had no intention of keeping up with, loss interest in it along the way for the short period of time it was actually out, or knew they could keep fleecing people by releasing a "new" version of the same thing every two years kinda like a video game console or iPhone... except with barely any improvements between models. With what you get and the pricing of the TR-09 and TB-03, it seems more like fleecing. Sadly, only the System-8 seems like an improval.

Guess what? I have used Roland products. So it's not shocking for a person who's been here not nearly as long you old timers to gravitate toward the Roland thread. I'll go make some more sunshine and rainbows posts elsewhere to validate me having negative comments to my experience with Roland here. If it helps, I currently own a Moog Sub 37, Dreadbox Erebus, Korg MS-20, and Korg Minilogue. I could list all the gear that I've owned and sold to get to where I am now with the pieces I love, but that's a long list... some of the things I sold were my Virus TI2 Polar, DSI Tempest, and Polivoks. Oh my, a person can have under 50 posts and still have owned and played with tons of gear.

User avatar
griffin avid
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 1568
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:08 am
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Roland 909 Day

Post by griffin avid » Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:06 pm

I can't speak for stab frenzy , but it seems to be more about the forum than the thread. Like some people are only compelled to add negative sentiments concerning new gear. Like as you say, you've got a lot of experience and probably a wealth of knowledge but instead of coming out more to share your depth, it's easiest to just pop in and say Roland sucks.---- er to be grossly generalizing.

Overall, I do get tired of the everything old is great and everything new stinks stance- but thos is a board core- about vintage synths but branches to all things electronic Geary. I welcome your trafficking c and even suggest you start some threAds and share your stories.

You bought the aira and sold them?! Wth?! I got the TR-8 and the vocoder and the bass unit. I like them all but NI Mashine is still the central piece. I love little drum machines but the boutique looks fiddly with the interface, small knobs and menu diving. It does look fast once you get used to the panel.

Sound wise I don't know yet. The full in depth video review sounded pretty good.
Music Product: Better Sounds for Beats http://www.StudioAVX.com
Music Production: Resources and Research http://www.ProducersEdgeMagazine.com
Music Produced: Abstract Hip Hop Sci-Fi: http://www.TheDynamicUniverse.com

User avatar
madtheory
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
Posts: 5155
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 12:45 pm
Real name: Tomas Mulcahy
Gear: Flangebeast Mk1, Plonkotron, Morovdis Arpeggiator, Maplin My First EQ, Jeff Wayne Thunderchild rack, Thermostat, Buck Owens' Moog.
Band: Minim
Location: Cork, Ireland
Contact:

Re: Roland 909 Day

Post by madtheory » Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:25 pm

A level difference will always make the louder thing sound "better". This is the same thing that comes up time and again. Music folk don't want to know about blind AB testing. Even though it works perfectly well for medicine. But I'm willing to bet good money that in a blind test, no one here could tell the difference between the sound of an Aira 909 and an original. So ya I am biased :lol:

It's fine having an opinion but when it is extreme, you need evidence. Especially if it's that digital v analogue bullshit. Otherwise, expect disagreement. And get over it.

User avatar
MyKeyZ
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:46 pm

Re: Roland 909 Day

Post by MyKeyZ » Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:00 pm

madtheory wrote:A level difference will always make the louder thing sound "better".
I think quite the opposite, lower volume means more room to breathe and depth. Hence the loudness war ruining the dynamic range of music. The louder something is, the less room there is causing sounds to compete for said limited space adding shrillness and losing all fullness. I have a good ear when it comes to distinguishing lossless and lossy compression and have taken the blind tests. It's something I developed over the years because I was very interested in the effects of audio compression and learning/hearing what it does to instruments. I think I could do well discerning between analog and digital. Of course, the loudness war ruins a lot of the benefits of lossless.

Since the TR-09 was the quietest in the comparison video, it should actually sound warmer and fuller. But it doesn't. It doesn't sound quiet, it sounds muted or more muffled. The TR-8 in this video sounds horribly shrill, especially that snare drum. Analog just has a coloring that is hard to replicate with digital. There are great digital synths out there. The System-1m was nice and thick. I loved the Virus Polar. But I feel Roland's ACB is lacking when it comes to their drum machines. If anything ACB technology is stronger at handling synths than it does replicating classic drum machines.

There is no problem with analog versus digital. Both have their pros and cons. The problems pop up when it's analog versus digital trying to recreate specific analog. I'm not here as some snobby analog only lover. There's just some things each can do that the other cannot match perfectly. I think any producer should have both analog and digital in the studio. I must say though Uhe Diva sounds pretty damn good for a software synth replicating analog, especially in the filters. I've tried the Arturia Minimoog, NI Monark, and Diva. Monark and Diva are great. But when it comes to sub bass sounds, I will probably most likely resort to my Moog Sub 37 for bottom end stuff and use Monark/Diva/etc. for bass sounds with unique characteristics at the top end.

User avatar
griffin avid
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 1568
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:08 am
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Roland 909 Day

Post by griffin avid » Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:13 pm

I think quite the opposite, lower volume means more room to breathe and depth. Hence the....

I think you missed the context, there. His quotes were a big hint.

He's referring to the old stereo system salesman trick where you compare two home stereo systems and the one you want to sell, you turn it up a bit louder to make it "sound Better".

At any rate, I hear a big difference in volume between those examples.
It's also very noticeable so I don't know how someone interested in making an audio comparison would miss that detail.
To be honest, I'll wait for the SoundonSound review. Or at least, from Sonic State.

Now, if you compare, audio(s), THAT video and the one I posted called in depth review, you can hear a huge difference in sonic footprint. And that difference is enough to even suggest that they were two different units in a blind test. I wouldn't be able to tell both videos were audio examples from the same piece.
Music Product: Better Sounds for Beats http://www.StudioAVX.com
Music Production: Resources and Research http://www.ProducersEdgeMagazine.com
Music Produced: Abstract Hip Hop Sci-Fi: http://www.TheDynamicUniverse.com

User avatar
griffin avid
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 1568
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:08 am
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Roland 909 Day

Post by griffin avid » Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:23 pm

Yeah, not buying it. Same guy- has another video doing a comparison between the TR 606 and the 606 expansion for the TR-8 Greenie. Again volume levels are crazy off and he plays a sequence from one and taps a few pads for the other and doesn't even attempt to dial in similar sounds.

I'm saying it. This guy is a goof.
Music Product: Better Sounds for Beats http://www.StudioAVX.com
Music Production: Resources and Research http://www.ProducersEdgeMagazine.com
Music Produced: Abstract Hip Hop Sci-Fi: http://www.TheDynamicUniverse.com

User avatar
ninja6485
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 2766
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:13 pm
Gear: Virus Ti, Jx-8p, Juno 60, Radias, Maschine, 101,303,606,707,727,808,909, odyssey, mirage, akai s5K/s2K/s1k, drumtraks, E6400ult, M1R, rx5, fizmo,d50
Band: Lyra, The Sun Worshipers
Location: Exton/ westchester

Re: Roland 909 Day

Post by ninja6485 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:44 pm

Stab Frenzy wrote:
ninja6485 wrote:
MyKeyZ wrote:Can we please just get an analog 909 that sounds good?
It exists! I have one. It's called the TR-909.
You have an analogue 909? That's pretty amazing. What does it do for cymbals?

Also, love it when a big company releases a new product and people with less than 50 posts come here to complain about it. :D
:lol: Oh no, I'm that guy from the article lol. You know what I meant!
griffin avid wrote:I think quite the opposite, lower volume means more room to breathe and depth. Hence the....

I think you missed the context, there. His quotes were a big hint.

He's referring to the old stereo system salesman trick where you compare two home stereo systems and the one you want to sell, you turn it up a bit louder to make it "sound Better".

At any rate, I hear a big difference in volume between those examples.
It's also very noticeable so I don't know how someone interested in making an audio comparison would miss that detail.
To be honest, I'll wait for the SoundonSound review. Or at least, from Sonic State.

Now, if you compare, audio(s), THAT video and the one I posted called in depth review, you can hear a huge difference in sonic footprint. And that difference is enough to even suggest that they were two different units in a blind test. I wouldn't be able to tell both videos were audio examples from the same piece.
+1

Anyway, that video comparison is nothing to judge the units on. Anyway, it doesn't matter if the new ones sound newer, cleaner, more precise, or even a little thinner. Let the new instruments just be fun and useful. It's a tribute to a great instrument. Let the originals have the qualities they have that makes them unique.

I mean, just because you don't want to shell out for a 909 doesn't mean you're entitled to have Roland make up the difference and deliver an exact replica to you for exactly the price you want to pay. And when they give you something that sounds that good, as a stand alone drum machine that looks the part, and is super portable, for what, one 6th, or even a 10th of the cost of buying the original, all of the sudden, it's not good enough because it sounds slightly different in a youtube video?
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

User avatar
Hybrid88
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 2251
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:26 am
Gear: V-Synth, and other stuff...
Location: Australia

Re: Roland 909 Day

Post by Hybrid88 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:03 pm

Initial impressions, after just watching a few videos (and I'm eating my words a bit in saying this) but the TR-09 sounds great, bang on to the 909 I reckon. Seriously thinking of grabbing one at some point, for the money there is no question that this will be a lot of fun to have around even if it is such an overused sound. And no abhorrent green colour scheme!! Seriously thank god for that...

The TB-03 on the other hand is still MUCH better than the TB-3, but still not quite there compared to the original, pretty damn close though, most people probably won't care and at the price I can't blame 'em.

System-8, yeah I'm not overly convinced to be honest. Can't see it doing any Jupiter-8's out of the job, in fact with that tiny green LCD screen in the centre and the general layout it's really reminding me of a modern JP-8000 more than anything, which I guess in a way it kinda is.

User avatar
madtheory
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
Posts: 5155
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 12:45 pm
Real name: Tomas Mulcahy
Gear: Flangebeast Mk1, Plonkotron, Morovdis Arpeggiator, Maplin My First EQ, Jeff Wayne Thunderchild rack, Thermostat, Buck Owens' Moog.
Band: Minim
Location: Cork, Ireland
Contact:

Re: Roland 909 Day

Post by madtheory » Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:39 pm

MyKeyZ wrote:I think quite the opposite, lower volume means more room to breathe and depth.
Except we're talking about AB testing musical instruments, not about music mastering and people's impressions of a piece of music. So yes, as griffin avid pointed out, you did miss the context. Check out any of the AB and ABX testing plugins out there. They all go to great lengths to ensure that there is no difference in level between the two things under test. It levels the playing field. Because the ear will always hear the louder one as "better", even if it's only 1dB louder, and even if (and this is the proof) the two things were actually 100% identical otherwise! It's a well known phenomenon (if you like I can dig out a few studies for you if you want better evidence).

Doesn't it seem logical? When you're comparing two things, you try to reduce as much as possible any variables that the test might introduce, to ensure you're only testing the things and not anything else. It's basic scientific methodology.

User avatar
Percivale
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 227
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:56 am
Gear: Blofeld, Juno-106, AN1X, MB-6582/SEQ V4, etc
Location: SG Synthesizers Group
Contact:

Re: Roland 909 Day

Post by Percivale » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:24 am

Hope everyone had some takeaways from the 909 day. I am more interested in acquiring the acid box TB-03. Kind of sitting on the fence, waiting for someone to play something inspiring using ACB Jupiter 8 sounds before deciding if I need that. I own the TR-8 and the System-1 and they are very good for what they do. The hideous green is the thing that hurts my eyes each time.

User avatar
Stab Frenzy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9723
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:41 pm
Gear: Eurorack, RYTM, Ultranova, many FX
Location: monster island*
Contact:

Re: Roland 909 Day

Post by Stab Frenzy » Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:03 am

It's a bit of a bummer that they didn't bring out a TR-08 as well so that people could have a hardware recreation of classic software groovebox Rebirth. ;)

User avatar
Voodoo Ray
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 113
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:22 pm
Gear:
Akai
Waldorf
Roland
Yamaha

Re: Roland 909 Day

Post by Voodoo Ray » Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:52 am

:lol:

Post Reply