Korg Monologue

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wlake.gmtn
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Re: Korg Monologue

Post by wlake.gmtn » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:55 pm

Can anyone help me figure this out?

"Load panel" is not the same between a program before and after play is pressed. Plus, the sound is not that loud.

I guess those are two different questions, one about the more advanced architecture and the other the more simple.

Regards.

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Re: Korg Monologue

Post by Jabberwalky » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:44 pm

Not even sure what you mean by those questions.

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Re: Korg Monologue

Post by wlake.gmtn » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:06 am

Basically I can't recreate the original programs just by fiddling with the knobs. Is there something I'm missing?

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Re: Korg Monologue

Post by AnalogKid » Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:54 am

wlake.gmtn wrote:Basically I can't recreate the original programs just by fiddling with the knobs. Is there something I'm missing?
Is there a reason that you are trying to recreate the original programs by fiddling with the knobs? Can't you just push the program button to get back to the original stored sounds?

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Re: Korg Monologue

Post by Jabberwalky » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:42 am

Hmm, do you want an Init patch? Or? Switch into panel mode Shift+Play and do whatever you want! Guess I'm not following. If you expect the knobs to reflect each patch your loading, that isn't possible unless every knob is motorized (which doesn't really exist)

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Re: Korg Monologue

Post by wlake.gmtn » Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:21 am

Thanks for the responses. I'm just trying to recreate them. I'm learning it as I go along. What's an init patch? And does a program save the Edit Mode options?

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Re: Korg Monologue

Post by Jabberwalky » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:17 pm

Init patch is one of the blank patches. Yes it saves everything aside from Global. Just mess around with it! It's mega simple.

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Re: Korg Monologue

Post by anotherscott » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:00 am

Uncle Screwtape wrote:
elsongs wrote:2. "Rather than going from C to C octaves though, this new instrument is laid out from E to E so that guitarists, bassists and other musicians always have quick access to a low E note"

Dude, basses with more than 4 strings go down to low B. Low E ain't low enough!
:lol: Why not just come out and say "Since we think you guitarists can't find an E without putting it at the end, we moved it two spaces to the left for ya. ;) "
Actually, I used to say 25-key keyboards (which up until now have always been C-to-C AFAIK) were pointless, it's not enough to really do much with, you're going to run out of keys on an awful lot of stuff... they're not even any good for LH bass duties, because you pretty much need two octaves from low E.

Well voila! This is the first 25-key keyboard that makes sense to me for doing LH bass. If you *must* have a tiny keyboard, IMO, this is the way to do it. It makes it usable for LH bass, and is not inherently any less useful for anything else than any other 25-key arrangement would be.

I'd be inclined to use its own keys for LH bass, and drive it from another board over MIDI for more extensive duties.

That's assuming the mini-keys wouldn't bug me for playing LHB. ;-)

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Re: Korg Monologue

Post by anotherscott » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:41 am

meatballfulton wrote:Broadwave, there is a workaround. Turn on portamento with a time of 0 and you get legato triggering of the EGs. I found out after mine was gone. They also fixed the CC assignment mess, though still no sustain.
I'm not even sure I'd call that a "workaround" as opposed to calling it a "feature" -- because it seems to me, you might want one behavior or the other, and so you would want some mechanism by which you could set it either way. Though assuming that is indeed the intent, it should be better documented!

What do you mean by "no sustain"? If you are referring to the lack of a sustain knob in the envelope section, I was concerned about that, but I have to say, after watching the video at I'm pretty impressed with the arrangement. It seems like you do have options that do give you more control than it seems at first.

But back to the first...
adamstan wrote:
meatballfulton wrote:Broadwave, there is a workaround. Turn on portamento with a time of 0 and you get legato triggering of the EGs.
These are two separate issues. Your solution works, if one wants "legato"/single trigger mode. However most complaints about Minilogue EG retriggering are because they always reset to zero on retrigger,
I'm still failing to understand the issue. I'm thinking about my old Minimoog... if you played legato, the envelope would carry from one note to the next. As soon as you let go, you'd start a new envelope with your next keypress. Is this not how the Monologue behaves, if you set Portamento to zero as described? It sounds like maybe people are looking for a third option, where the envelope persists even on non-legato playing, is that it? (Well I guess that ould be a fourth option, since the Korg also has a mode where the envelop retriggers on legato playing, its default "portamento off" mode.) Back on the old days, I had a number of different analog mono synths (Korg, Roland, EML, in addition to the aforementioned Minimoog)... I don't actually remember any where the envelope would *not* retrigger when playing a new "disconnected" note (i.e. not legato from the previous note). So I feel like I must be misunderstanding the problem people are talking about.
Jabberwalky wrote:So it could be remedied if they redesigned the envelopes in the firmware... Seems that software is an afterthought with new analog.
A true analog synth has no "firmware" or "software" per se. The circuit itself determines the behavior. If it is controlled by firmware/software, it's digital. That said, the distinctions blur in a lot of modern synths. It can be hard to be sure exactly what is analog and what is digital in an ostensibly analog synth. Patch recall would be digital, for example. Whether there is any digital manipulation involved in the envelopes or whether they are actually fully analog, I don't know.

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Re: Korg Monologue

Post by adamstan » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:12 am

anotherscott wrote:I don't actually remember any where the envelope would *not* retrigger when playing a new "disconnected" note (i.e. not legato from the previous note). So I feel like I must be misunderstanding the problem people are talking about.
It becomes obvious with longer attack and release times. When analogue envelope (including Minimoog ;-) ) retriggers, it retriggers from whatever level it was at the moment, so even with retriggering, transition between notes is fluid. Mini/Monologue envelope always resets to zero, cutting abrutply previous release stage. I made quick drawing to illustrate this:

Image
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Re: Korg Monologue

Post by madtheory » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:50 pm

Great diagram! Clearly shows the problem.
anotherscott wrote:A true analog synth has no "firmware" or "software" per se. The circuit itself determines the behavior. If it is controlled by firmware/software, it's digital. That said, the distinctions blur in a lot of modern synths.
I think your definition of "true analogue synth" is too limited. Therefore when you say modern, you really mean anything from 1978 or so onwards- because that's when the microprocessor facilitated polyphony, the CS80 and its relatives being a notable exception. So by your definition the Prophet 5, or the OB-X, for example, are not "true analogue". So it's a rather unhelpful and coarse distinction you are making here I think. And there are quite a lot of "true analogue" synths where the envelopes are digitally controlled- and that includes the Monologue.

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Re: Korg Monologue

Post by anotherscott » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:20 pm

adamstan wrote:I made quick drawing to illustrate this:
Thanks, that helped a lot!
madtheory wrote: there are quite a lot of "true analogue" synths where the envelopes are digitally controlled- and that includes the Monologue.
Sorry, I didn't mean to derail the conversation with a semantic distinction about what constitutes "true" or "modern" but this part of your response gets to the heart of my comment. So then we are certain the Monologue envelopes are digitally controlled, and so this behavior is definitely a result of "programming" rather than "circuit design"? Is that a necessary precondition for being able to have digital preset recall in the first place?

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Re: Korg Monologue

Post by adamstan » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:30 pm

No, it isn't necessary, but digitally generated envelopes are much cheaper. To have preset recall (or polyphony, or both), analogue EG circuit has to be voltage controlled, and that makes it much more complicated than simple circuit with variable resistors used to charge/discharge capacitor - they all have to be replaced with voltage-controlled current sources/sinks - and that's a lot of additional circuitry.

And yes - it is 100% sure that Mini- and Monologue envelopes are digital, so their behaviour could be changed with firmware update.

AFAIK one of the first analogue synths that used digitally generated envelopes were Prophet 600 and Jupiter 6.
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Re: Korg Monologue

Post by madtheory » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:39 pm

Thanks adamstan, that's a much better and pithy explanation that what I was just going to post... I'll post it anyway :)
anotherscott wrote:So then we are certain the Monologue envelopes are digitally controlled, and so this behavior is definitely a result of "programming" rather than "circuit design"?
Well we can't know with 100% certainty without the service manual, but we can be fairly sure. An analogue envelope is based around the RC circuit, a charging capacitor. It would take a lot of trouble to have it discharge before the next note, and I think that is probably impossible, so the Korg's behaviour is 99% likely a software issue. Plus the fact that people are reporting that setting portamento on but at a value of 0 seems to prevent the behaviour implies that is digitally controlled. The CPU tells a digital to analogue converter what to do with the notes. On your MiniMoog, portamento at 0 just means no portamento, there is no on off switch because the portamento is another RC circuit applied the the CV generated by the keyboard.

There are other digitally controlled and VA synths that behave incorrectly too. EE's trained in digital electronics forget about the older analogue basics. It's not cool technology any more.
anotherscott wrote:Is that a necessary precondition for being able to have digital preset recall in the first place?
No, for example P5 and OBX have analogue envelope generators. Their CVs are stored with the patch, like the CV for all the other analogue bits.

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Re: Korg Monologue

Post by anotherscott » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:54 pm

madtheory wrote:On your MiniMoog, portamento at 0 just means no portamento, there is no on off switch because the portamento is another RC circuit applied the the CV generated by the keyboard.
Actually, there IS an on/off switch for the portamento on the MiniMoog. ;-) But I get your point, thanks to both of you for helping to clear things up.

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