so Juno 60's are about £1000 now? what the h**l?!

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Re: so Juno 60's are about £1000 now? what the h**l?!

Post by Walter Ego » Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:36 pm

meatballfulton wrote:The Juno is a funny instrument. Set the EG for slow attack, decay, release and no sustain. Set the LFO speed about 50%, set the resonance 50-75%, cutoff to 0, modulate the filter with both EG and LFO at 50-75%, turn on the chorus and enable all three waveforms. Play one note...wow, that does sound good ;)
Just remember to say "excuse me" afterwards. One must always be polite.
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Re: so Juno 60's are about £1000 now? what the h**l?!

Post by Bitexion » Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:46 pm

I just checked national ads for Roland synths, and the first I saw was a Juno-6 going for $1100/£1000 (10000NOK). That's insane.

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Re: so Juno 60's are about £1000 now? what the h**l?!

Post by jxalex » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:10 am

Baus wrote:The Juno-106 was the first synth I ever played with. That was back in 1985/86 in High School.

Both the Juno-60 and 106 are nice synths but yeah.... the price. And recently I have seen more posts about
non-working sound chips than any other Roland synth. I few months ago I got an Alpha Juno-1. I am seriously
amazed by the sound and keep asking myself: why would someone prefer a 106 over an Alpha Juno 1 or 2?

I would like to compare them so I can get my answer.
Juno-106 voice chips? No problem -- just solder off that voice module, a bottle acetone, soak in it 2 days and after that gently the housing gets off as a rubber, no force required, do it gently AND do NOT scratch as there are lasertrimmed resistors. And thats it. After that You solder it on place again.
But what keeps most people renovating even his own synth is that they cannot and would not solder (and are also bragging with his stupidity!). The printed circuit boards are VERY simple on those synths.

Alpha Juno prices have gone up too, however it is totally different beast. Its envelopes are slower than Junos, however with a hardware hack it can be made faster. I myself plan to test some modifications on DCOs to get them fatter sounding and memory upgrade for banks. When ready everyone gets a schematics.

What makes Juno-106 unique is somewhat his chorus AND oscillators.

Sequential Circuits Prophet 600 and Roland Jupiter can sound like exact replica when just having the chorus module after it. This one is also easy to build (MN3101 and MN3009 chips (alas, there are FAKE chips on the market also which are marked as MN3009, but it is MN3007 inside).

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Re: so Juno 60's are about £1000 now? what the h**l?!

Post by blueknob » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:43 am

I don't know why people complain about price of this type of kit, it's a live market, supply and demand (the latter being the key). How long ago was it when those TB303 were £600+? Now the SH101 are £600+, the long standing TR909 were coverted (seldom up for sale) same too the TR808, JP8 were always a lot of money, next best thing in that line of synth was the JP4 and now we're down to the Junos and for those desperate for old Roland, the early SH series have gone high in price.
Now I notice Korg Poly Six, Ensoniq ESQ-1 which I think stem from the SQ-80 demand and so on are way high. On the positive side, it is good there is such a keen demand as those people not able to source one of the afore mentioned items will have to suffer in shame and succumb to some modern synth. This is good as it keeps the whole synth industry alive, so I guess we need to stock up on Behringer's new synth and stash them away as an investment. :lol:

Update: By chance I just saw this, an auction for a Juno 60, estimated at £1000-£1500!! I'm not sure if non-UK people can see this item. I haven't yet found out what it sold for. Don' t forget there is an extra 23% on top of the sale price! (So if it sold for £1000 the price to pay is £1230). OK, when will these hit £2000 mark?

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auct ... c600c9aa9a

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Re: so Juno 60's are about £1000 now? what the h**l?!

Post by Solderman » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:38 pm

I used to be furious about the vintage synth market price increases that have steadily risen since around 2007. I feared they would all end up in the hands of collectors or wealthy artists of questionable talent.

Then I had the epiphany that the high-demand synths on the market(which are still fully-working and reliable) are more often now being treated first as investments, and secondarily as sound-generating devices. Whether the goal is to get faster productivity or faster envelopes, the goal seems now to be less about keeping them long-term and more about how they can improve your productions right now or in the near future. It doesn't even make sense to continue to be a collector anymore unless you are very wealthy.

The only analogue gear I still have now that I had 5 years ago is all modded except for the 303. The 101 is about half broken too, so there's that.

Now if I felt I needed that $1500 Prophet 600 or $1100 Juno-60, and was certain it would provide some benefit (besides personal amusement or self-indulgence) and I had the cash to spare, I would do it knowing I wouldn't be able to own it long-term. The life of these machines gets shorter by the year, no matter how well they are made and for the ones still fully-working to become more like a kind of currency sort of makes sense to me now.

Wanting to keep them forever, after recently being purchased, seems foolish these days to me, unless you are lucky in acquiring them.
I am no longer in pursuit of vintage synths. The generally absurd inflation from demand versus practical use and maintenance costs is no longer viable. The internet has suffocated and vanquished yet another wonderful hobby. Too bad.
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Re: so Juno 60's are about £1000 now? what the h**l?!

Post by jxalex » Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:36 am

blueknob wrote: Update: By chance I just saw this, an auction for a Juno 60, estimated at £1000-£1500!! I'm not sure if non-UK people can see this item. I haven't yet found out what it sold for. Don' t forget there is an extra 23% on top of the sale price! (So if it sold for £1000 the price to pay is £1230). OK, when will these hit £2000 mark?
One thing is the prices, but other thing is about *real sales*. The most realistic prices are not buynow but auctions.
I have added on watch list several these synths with "sellers dreamprices" and can you really sell your stuff with that price? Just add on watch list the item and see yourself. Guess what? These synths get relisted, not bought.

The same thing with vintage computer stuff -- Gravis Ultrasound cards, or other "hard to get" stuff.

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Re: so Juno 60's are about £1000 now? what the h**l?!

Post by jxalex » Sat Dec 10, 2016 5:08 am

Solderman wrote:I used to be furious about the vintage synth market price increases that have steadily risen since around 2007. I feared they would all end up in the hands of collectors or wealthy artists of questionable talent.
/-/-/
Now if I felt I needed that $1500 Prophet 600 or $1100 Juno-60, and was certain it would provide some benefit (besides personal amusement or self-indulgence) and I had the cash to spare, I would do it knowing I wouldn't be able to own it long-term. The life of these machines gets shorter by the year, no matter how well they are made and for the ones still fully-working to become more like a kind of currency sort of makes sense to me now.

Wanting to keep them forever, after recently being purchased, seems foolish these days to me, unless you are lucky in acquiring them.

Can you something explain to me, about this kind of "cannot afford it" thinking becouse there are really many different meanings. I have heard it so many times, yet can someone explain to me about the synths....

ABout this "cannot afford it" I understand if it means that it requires sustained maintenance which is expensive OR its rented OR you bought with high price and it is losing value fast and neither had any amusement with it.
BUT THIS is very bizzarre if someone says that "(I love it, but) cannot afford that synth any longer", just after he will see that his synthesizer price went up, but .... he bought it 10 years ago for cheap AND it never asked maintenance AND he has still amusement AND has room for it.
So, he just got greedy? (so, it is just tempting to sell the synth when its prices have gone up!?)
So, every piece of equipment makes a thought "I cannot afford it any longer" if its selling price goes up, even if it was bought 10 year ago AND with cheap price?


Also there can be some sort of 3rd meaning -- that buying something expensive only if having still some cash to spare makes sense only if it requires also sustained constant maintenance or otherwise they will just break down (cars and women for example). IMHO it does not makes sense with one-time-buy items which do not ask maintenance or very little and so you can own them a lifetime and buy them with high price still!
It is just like comparing a rented apartment to house in suburbia, where house has lower maintenance costs than apartment rent.
Still people have nasty habit to think that if someone has expensive synths then they think automagically that he has atleast so much loose money more.

Do we hear the same "cannot afford it" from that person if he got that synthesizer from someone as a GIFT long time ago but now its price went up?
And what he does with money after synth sale? Keeping it? GEtting cheaper synths?

AND based on this I really do not understand this:
It doesn't even make sense to continue to be a collector anymore unless you are very wealthy.
I really do not understand -- why not? ... they have not become more expensive to maintain in last 10 years. Also especially if the synthesizers are not eating and they are just one stop buy.
When it is question about expensive maintenance, then women and kids are the real money robbers, while synthesizers are next to none. Also computer hardware and virtual synthesizers, all kind of rented/hired/services stuff is something which should be cut to minimal.

Also we bought synths in first place becouse we LIKED it!

And if anything in music creation is based on how much the tools will cost or getting tools just to get money then it is better to not make music at all or tools which do not need constant money throwing in it -- software.
Also, what is the point of money if not spending it? Money does not give happyness, its merely some tool. And if synth makes me happier than money then I would better have synthesizers than money.

Lets see, what if, hypothetically being wealthy, there is still this psychological factor playing a role. About this price sticker. Becouse I would not buy another synth even if it would be cheaper, also I would not sell it.

Just my rumblings but I am interested to hear Your thoughts.
Or... anyone? Please explain their view and understandings too becouse I feel like being from different galaxy.

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Re: so Juno 60's are about £1000 now? what the h**l?!

Post by salwa » Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:08 am

jxalex wrote:...buying something expensive only if having still some cash to spare makes sense only if it requires also sustained constant maintenance or otherwise they will just break down (cars and women for example).
:facepalm:
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Re: so Juno 60's are about £1000 now? what the h**l?!

Post by jxalex » Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:28 am

I see nothing wrong in that claim. Its the cruel reality. everyone has their hobbys and some are more expensive than other -- especially sportcars and some women are very expensive to keep them running next to kids -- they are the biggest money-robbers as You know if just counting up the costs. But most of them dont dare to speak out loud about it.
Compared to them the cost about synth is next to none in a 10 years span.

well, perhaps no-one has better explanation than posting emoticons.

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Re: so Juno 60's are about £1000 now? what the h**l?!

Post by salwa » Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:41 pm

jxalex wrote:I see nothing wrong in that claim. Its the cruel reality. everyone has their hobbys and some are more expensive than other -- especially sportcars and some women are very expensive to keep them running next to kids -- they are the biggest money-robbers as You know if just counting up the costs. But most of them dont dare to speak out loud about it.
Compared to them the cost about synth is next to none in a 10 years span.

well, perhaps no-one has better explanation than posting emoticons.
You must have very sad life if you think about your family as a cost generating items. Most people I know happily part with their money if they can spend it on their loved ones. Such cynical remarks are saddening.
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Re: so Juno 60's are about £1000 now? what the h**l?!

Post by jxalex » Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:03 pm

All I asked was just a clarification about what means someone "cannot afford that" thinking, and not a hype about family. Not sad, I do not need your pity. In fact I say "no woman no cry" as there are a way too many colleauges and friends whos storys I have to listen how it went to them this or that time, plus my own experiences.

To me it is sad when men have lost joy in their favourite game -- synthesizers --- and begin count money instead and see synths as costs only!

(now we slipped offtopic, really! lets go to offtopic section if you want to discuss it and I share my thoughts from my aliens galaxy!)

ABout that family thing -- I see it is totally overhyped. All this agitation about dating, relationships, sex, marry-consume-reproduce, is very intensive, disgusting, off-putting as more and more people agitate or hype it. It is far from perfect in reality and nothing to desire -- 75% divorces are initiated by women, and only 5% relations are longlasting. AND you cant even say out loud that! Only comedians are on a safe side to say how it is in reality: "In marriage all is ok if he does what she wants, and she does what she wants". She and she! So it explains itself... in this society it is painted as man has to be like a marathon runner and to try everything while woman is like cold passive receiver-chooser (in any media!). Yuk :?
If you have 20+ year long, and quality relationship - congratiolations, keep her -- but most do not have it and no need to overhype relationships. My most friends and colleauges have reality like this -- giving up their hobbys, missing their children who live far away with their mother after divorce, or being a single father, wife who is cheating... etc. Their girlfriends try to have affair with me, and (as a reply to my protest) they find quickly 10 excuses why it is not a relationship what she has with his husband! At the same time her husband is "happily apart from his money" and does not know! Nope, it is not tempting, not a bit. THe whole relationship concept is disgusting.
AND STILL after I have seen this reality how others suffer, I STILL hear many many many times this question "why single? why not married..." etc question! Based on this, all it IS overhyped. Not a quality.
Why I would bring at home someone who will fly out when seeing bigger-better-deal? And mostly man is not allowed to say out loud even (it has to be said nicely... etc and politically correct way).

Yes, I really need to put my heart in something fully, it is human, however I actually need QUALITY.
It needs suitable counterpart. Someone who has sense of loyalty, honour, respect and takes responsibility, but it needs someone who has ethic.

Sad is only that I hear "why are you single?" question a far more often than "why havent you joined Starfleet Academy?" ;)


Actually it is MULTICULTURAL society by now, so I can be whatever way I want to be and live, so there is no problem and should be no critic at all about my own way if I want to live accordingly to my very own personal standards and rules. But ironic enough thats the point where people fail to accept when it is talk how someone wants to live his own life.

Be happy and I am too.

Sorry, I am not good at making short posts.
Come on, lets talk again about main thread -- Juno 60 or Juno-106, it is far MORE superior than women or whatever chicks.... :D :) :)

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Re: so Juno 60's are about £1000 now? what the h**l?!

Post by ninja6485 » Sat Dec 10, 2016 5:32 pm

No one respond to the topic of men/women and relationships. Start a new thead in off topic and discuss it there. All that can come of it in this thread is mud- slinging, sexism, anti sexist chastising, stories about how happy people are with their marriages, and finally a locked thread. No one wants any of that to happen! :thumbright:
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

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Re: so Juno 60's are about £1000 now? what the h**l?!

Post by jxalex » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:06 am

No one respond to the topic of men/women and relationships. Start a new thead in off topic and discuss it there. All that can come of it in this thread is mud- slinging, sexism, anti sexist chastising, stories about how happy people are with their marriages, and finally a locked thread. No one wants any of that to happen! :thumbright:

To me however that topic about women is totally irrelevant and I had no idea what comes out from just one innocent comparison... Especially in Juno 60 thread ;) (i actually suspected at first that salwa meant about cars only).

But later I just had to share a light becouse someone already takes opinions if I have a sad life or not, without knowing how I actually am.
( However these 2...3 posts can be moved to another section where my fellow salwa got touchy and showed emoticon? with all respect.)


SO, again... perhaps someone can share a light about synths and money when it is about "cannot afford that" saying?

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Re: so Juno 60's are about £1000 now? what the h**l?!

Post by jxalex » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:30 am

Yes, Juno-106 is like a psychotic drug.. no wonder it is so popular... :)

those who have Juno-106 and even atleast some electronic/soldering skills, I could make instructions how to ...
... make variable chorus unit rate for synth.
... make chorus less noisy (you know that synth is quite noisy with chorus unit switched on) (really simple schematic consisting of 1 opamp, and some diodes-resistors-capacitors to drive JFETs)
(My personal Juno-106 has chorus noise at the same level as its chorus is still switched off)

... on JD990 thread you find a snippet how to make inexpensive way for M512 card support in that synth.

About ROland MKS-50 there is a trick how to make attack time faster (2 capacitors to swap -- C58 and C56 to smaller values - 0.1u is enough or to taste).

Therea are possibilities to overcome 64 internal memory preset limit on almost any synth with quite simple steps.
On Juno-106, MKS-50 .. etc.
But I will do it at first on my loved Roland JD990 and JD800 -- I try to expand its memory 64..256 patches extra.
Schematics provided later, no need for sophisticated expensive system. :)

About ROland MKS-50 there is a way to make DCOs sound fatter and it does not mean spending hundreds dollars.
So far it is under experiment just now. Sound examples and pictures follow.

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Re: so Juno 60's are about £1000 now? what the h**l?!

Post by colmon » Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:01 am

Juno 106 is like sex with a real woman, soft synth is more like a m*******n. Don't you agree jxalex?

Once Trump builds the wall we will see vintage synth prices go down again.

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