JX-8P Saving weirdness (answered)

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part12studios
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JX-8P Saving weirdness (answered)

Post by part12studios » Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:57 pm

Hi everyone,

So I have a JX-8P and wonder if anyone out there has experienced this. i recently got a JX-8P and wanted to restore the factory sounds before i go and undo many of them. Using MIDIQuest11 I was able to push individual factory patches i found online.. simply went 1-32.. however when i went back to check them out its like some got shuffled / duplicated

The order of pushing buttons was.. "write" then "internal" then a number.. it always responds that the write was successful and it does appear there.. but

The battery is ORIGINAL.. lol.. so yes I do have suspicions that this could be the problem.. however i would imagine that if the battery were bad / on the verge of going bad.. there would be more like digital noise / problems or flat out not being there when i restart the synth...

Just wondering if maybe i'm doing something wrong or if anyone else has experienced this. I was in the market to get someone local to replace the battery already, but this behavior struck me as kinda odd..

the synth overall checks out great. the only problem I have found so far is that the number 30 button on the patch row is dead..

Thanks,
Caleb
Last edited by part12studios on Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: JX-8P Saving weirdness (battery?)

Post by jxalex » Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:48 am

maybe synth was not in use quite a long time.
Does the situation is still the same after the synth has warmed up couple hours?

i have no experience with midiquest,

but try that -- are you able to re-read the patch after you SAVE the patch on the internal memory and you change to preset and back?
Just write a presets to internal memory and then see if changing back is succesful. If not then there can be problem which is more problems than battery.

battery is needed only to store patches when powered off it does not affect the function when synthesizer is powered on.

The patch buttons you can swap/solder yourself as they are common push buttons on many many Roland synthesizers 6mm push button under the membrane.

Additionally you can actually replace the battery with a CR2032 battery holder ;)

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Re: JX-8P Saving weirdness (battery?)

Post by part12studios » Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:20 pm

ok so i took it into a shop nearby to have it looked at. the guy opened it up with me and the battery is in great shape. strong 3+ voltage.. so we opted to leave it alone.. that said, i went home with this new confidence that the battery was not a contributor. I pushed the factory patches and noticed something:

each patch when pushed would show up in a given slot.. like Bomb 31.. i was loading them alphabetically because the patches were not numbered.. i would push a patch with midiquest.. then follow the above order.. this time around though i saved the patch to the number it was actually in already.. if it said "Bomb I31" i would save it to 31.. etc.. so i think it's ok.

The only weirdness I see sometimes are seemingly random stuck notes now and then.. but they seem to come from doing the sysex stuff.. a quick off / on seems to reset that and it goes away.. I've read elsewhere that people experience this..

However this is also with the unit only being on for less than 5 minutes.. perhaps warming up would fix as well. what would be considered acceptable to say "this this is warmed up"?

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Re: JX-8P Saving weirdness (battery?)

Post by part12studios » Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:46 pm

- post meant for another thread -
Last edited by part12studios on Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: JX-8P Saving weirdness (battery?)

Post by part12studios » Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:52 pm

Also yes the synth has been been in its original box for basically 20 years or so. So I am definitely put it to use after a long time been dormant. I am curious though about the idea of the JX warming up because it's a digital synthesizer it seems like it wouldn't be that much beyond the 12 second countdown that it does.

I am still amazed about the battery. That said it is my second synth to have a battery that is well over 20 years old and still be healthy and working. My DW8000 also seems to be define physics lol. However I am not a denier of the damage that batteries can do because along with those two anomalies I have several synth I have that had nasty leaking batteries that need to be replaced.

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Re: JX-8P Saving weirdness (battery?)

Post by madtheory » Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:45 pm

Question- why can't you send an entire bank, instead of one patch at a time?

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Re: JX-8P Saving weirdness (battery?)

Post by part12studios » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:51 pm

well with MIDIQuest it seems that individual sysex files have to be pushed one at a time.. i can't select multiple ones.. there is a way i think to drag them over but i haven't figured out the right steps aside from the one at a time approach.

There is a way it can send a bank, but I don't have any banks to load.. in my MQ11 tinkering I did manage to send a bank and it zero'd out all 32 patches.. lol.. so yea i'm trying to avoid doing that mishap again. :)

Someone just posted something after madtheory's that showed links to some old software that had some patches. what happened to that post? someone removed it? I'd like to check that program out.. maybe give me the name so i can google it at least? Maybe it broke some rule in the forum? Seemed like very old software written for the JX-8P specifically, not pirated software..

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Re: JX-8P Saving weirdness (battery?)

Post by Sonus » Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:46 am

I just verified if syx banks could be loaded into PG-8X VST.
https://web.archive.org/web/20060101041 ... tches.html

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Re: JX-8P Saving weirdness (battery?)

Post by madtheory » Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:14 am

RTFM or email MIDIQuest. JX8P definitely supports bank dumps.

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Re: JX-8P Saving weirdness (battery?)

Post by part12studios » Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:23 pm

from midiquest quick tips:

* The JX-8P does not have a dump
request so Tones must be sent to
MIDI QUEST manually"

However I have been emailing Michael at Sound Quest (awesome support, he's super helpful) and will bring up the dump subject. We were tackling other things and some things i need to get cleared up on like his saying that sysex files can be drag/dropped into MQ but I'm not finding that true and must be doing something wrong.

Yes I definitely know you can send a "bank" of sounds to it, but right now i'm figuring out how i would build a bank of sounds to push to it.. i can (and have) blank out all 32 patches in about 6 seconds.. lol.. I don't want to repeat that.

The plot does thicken though.. so now that I had this unit looked at and i know the battery is healthy.. and knowing the only way i can successfully push a patch to the system (so far) is as a manual individual patch, when i do this some patches seem to not just go over but save themselves to a predetermined patch slot.. example:

i have "metal lead" in slot 17.. I am currently on P1.. or I1.. or really anywhere.. i then load "club-grind" with the intent of saving it in slot 25.. when i push it over boom it is there and saves itself to 17.. overwriting metal lead.. however even if i accommodate that and move metal lead to 25.. loading metal lead wants to be in 17 as well. yet other patches I can load will blink as if they are ready to be saved but not actually written yet.. so it's like the nature of some sysex files have some kind of info in them that takes that extra step to not just load, but save as well.

I have the JX cartridge as well which i was trying to have be a kind of temp saving space but in reality that's no good because i intend to customize all 32 of those slots as well with found or made patches.

@madtheory, I'll try that program. I have Mac, but I have parallels and I think I can get my usb midi ederol device to be detected by it. The banks sound exciting to try out too, I just need to first get my core banks working / built and backed up before i go dumping entire banks into it.

I'm super stoked because while I have heard a good number of "boring" pianos and such in this thing, there are some really rich analog sounds I've come across so far that I'm excited to work with.

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Re: JX-8P Saving weirdness (battery?)

Post by jxalex » Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:06 pm

As I said battery has nothing to do with that - it is only important in power-off state!

Its very hard to understand Your ramblings this way, and I may give false diagnose this way! Just one step at the time! At first we need to test and check the SYNTH condition only. (Leave software, computers aside for a moment and cartridge as welll!!).

Now:
I gave you yesterday on my post the method about patch saving and checking the patches and it was meant to be systematic. :) It was meant to diagnose if there is a storing the patches. This is the FIRST thing to check right now. Computer is irrelevant here. But obviously you did not understood.

-1. Check that the ALL buttons work as they should. Patch buttons 1..32, and WRITE, INTERNAL, PRESET if these work then you can begin the test.
0. Power up the synthesizer, having no MIDI cables connected.

1. go to PRESET sound P1 (or something like that)
2. save this preset over to INTERNAL memory slot I1
3. go to another memory slot.
4. return to the INTERNAL memory slot I1

Q: Is the sound at I1 as it should be? --- Yes, the synth SLOT I1 is ok. No -- the synth has problem with that internal memory slot.

5. Repeat the 1...4 steps again with the next memory slot I2 and so on. You can also check that it did not overwrite some previous slots with the same preset. Just save P1 to I1, P2 to I2 and so on, after that check that the stored internal memory patches still match as it was saved. ;)
If some slots saved patches are not as they should, just repeat over in order to check, and if it still does not accept a tone then the synth has a problem with its logic circuits with memory access, but it can be several different problems (in one word -- complicated).

When all this is done, next test. After You saved the presets. Power off the synth and power up again after couple minutes. Is the Internal memory presets as they should be?



The only weirdness I see sometimes are seemingly random stuck notes now and then.. but they seem to come from doing the sysex stuff.. a quick off / on seems to reset that and it goes away.. I've read elsewhere that people experience this..

However this is also with the unit only being on for less than 5 minutes.. perhaps warming up would fix as well. what would be considered acceptable to say "this this is warmed up"?
/-/-/
I am curious though about the idea of the JX warming up because it's a digital synthesizer it seems like it wouldn't be that much beyond the 12 second countdown that it does.
Simple: heat expansion on printed circuit boards, capacitors need some time for themself to "recondition" themself and it may reveal other problems as well which need to be fixed. These items really are influenced by age. Cold solder joints MAY arise or vanish.

Just to clear things up it needs to be powered on whole day atleast if it was stored away 20 years. Nothing bad will happen. ;)

The data comes in and simply fluctuates a little bit based on the point at which the slider is at.
the slider -- this is simple -- there is a dirt buildup inside. Weird that your tech who checked battery did not noticed that. It needs just cleaned with a solvent and add on a carbon surface some drops oil (whatever type will do).

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Re: JX-8P Saving weirdness (battery?)

Post by Sonus » Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:14 am

part12studios wrote: ... it's like the nature of some sysex files have some kind of info in them that takes that extra step to not just load, but save as well.
Patches are transmitted to the edit buffer and stored with additional sysex messages.
CLUB-GRND code F0 41 34 00 21 20 01 00 10 02 F7 will write the patch to I-17.
In a bank file, every patch is followed by a 'save to memory' code:

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Re: JX-8P Saving weirdness (battery?)

Post by part12studios » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:23 am

yea so regarding this, I did eventually work it out by building sets in MIDI Quest. It did seem that the patches I was working with had their own inherit action to save in a specific slot.. using MIDI Quest let me override that action in some of the patches in my collection.. sadly there were not really that many I found online but I was able to come up with a really sweet set of 64 choice patches so I'm super excited to get to using them for the RPM challenge in February. Racing the clock to get the studio in order! :) Thanks for all the great insight guys!

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