Question about midi interfaces.

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WalrusGumboot
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Question about midi interfaces.

Post by WalrusGumboot » Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:38 pm

Hi, I have a master keyboard which does MIDI over USB but doesn't have MIDI out, only USB. I would like to use it as a controller for some analog synths, so would it be possible to plug the keyboard into my computer and use a MIDI interface with MIDI out to control the synth?

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Re: Question about midi interfaces.

Post by sw_hunt » Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:21 pm

Yes if you use a DAW or some kind of midi loop program. I've got a similar question...I have an iRigkeysPRO keyboard which also only has USB out (Ok and an iPad out). Is there an adapter I can use to convert this USB (or iPad connector) into 5-pin midi out? Might help the OP too as this won't require a computer.

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Re: Question about midi interfaces.

Post by Tidda » Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:14 pm

sw_hunt wrote:Is there an adapter ...
Kenton MIDI USB Host

Tidda

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Re: Question about midi interfaces.

Post by sw_hunt » Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:28 pm

Tidda wrote:
sw_hunt wrote:Is there an adapter ...
Kenton MIDI USB Host

Tidda
Thanks. £88 though...tempting to buy a new midi controller keyboard instead.

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Re: Question about midi interfaces.

Post by jxalex » Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:52 am

just AVOID these nonstandard keyboards.

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Re: Question about midi interfaces.

Post by sw_hunt » Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:28 am

jxalex wrote:just AVOID these nonstandard keyboards.
Yeah, what use is a keyboard without midi???! I bought it because it'd got an iPad interface. I've used it twice! Still use it to control my DAW and Arturia V Collection but it'd be nice if I could plug it into some proper midi stuff too.

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Re: Question about midi interfaces.

Post by tim gueguen » Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:39 am

jxalex wrote:just AVOID these nonstandard keyboards.
Easier said than done. A lot of the budget stuff doesn't have a standard DIN MIDI output anymore.
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Re: Question about midi interfaces.

Post by meatballfulton » Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:21 pm

True....sadly a budget keyboard and the Kenton box can be cheaper than a keyboard with real MIDI jacks.
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Re: Question about midi interfaces.

Post by jxalex » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:04 am

I thought quite a while that when it comes that time that they consider dropping MIDI support for a gear "becouse" to make things obsolete. If it goes on this way then no wonder that on one day there are new synths without MIDI port.

have anyone of you considered a bargain synthesizer to use it as Midi controller? They tend to have much better keyboard than budget midi controllers. (well, still, with this keyboard you cant use iPad.) But in this case you could use a iPads MIDI interface

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Re: Question about midi interfaces.

Post by sw_hunt » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:00 am

jxalex wrote: have anyone of you considered a bargain synthesizer to use it as Midi controller? They tend to have much better keyboard than budget midi controllers. (well, still, with this keyboard you cant use iPad.) But in this case you could use a iPads MIDI interface
That's pretty much what I bought the Blofeld Keyboard for. It's really high quality and has aftertouch and velocity - and midi and USB. Some nice sounds too. Just wish it had CV outs! I couldn't find a decent keyboard with midi and CV outs for less than a System 8. Arturia Brutethings have CV out but only 2 octaves. Did I miss anything?

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Re: Question about midi interfaces.

Post by jxalex » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:40 am

sw_hunt wrote: Just wish it had CV outs! I couldn't find a decent keyboard with midi and CV outs for less than a System 8. Arturia Brutethings have CV out but only 2 octaves. Did I miss anything?
There are MIDI to CV converters.

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Re: Question about midi interfaces.

Post by jxalex » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:44 am

tim gueguen wrote:
jxalex wrote:just AVOID these nonstandard keyboards.
Easier said than done. A lot of the budget stuff doesn't have a standard DIN MIDI output anymore.
why so that easier said than done? These USB keyboards have really no perspective or value in a longer run if you plan to get some synth modules later on. Also these items with USB does not integrate well with the existing hardware.
When You get your first keyboard version synth then it has MIDI out of its own too. There are many synthesizers available as keyboard and there are also their rack-format counterparts. So buying a keyboard-synthesizer provides to you 2 things already -- a synthesizer and a master keyboard at the same time.

And also if the manufacturers purpose was to make so cheap as possible then dont bother with it when you need midi and ANd no complaining if from one upgrade its drivers or software does not work.

MIDI is MIDI, it works with whatever hardware, has its extra value.

What DOES help is to complain to manufacturer that their support for MIDI is missing, and so they add MIDI port too to their keyboards or just dont buy these.

I really wonder, what next? Someone buys a Yamaha PSR300 and complains why man cant program own sounds and why it does not sound like Roland Jupiter 8 ? :D Very happy
Last edited by jxalex on Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Question about midi interfaces.

Post by sw_hunt » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:58 am

jxalex wrote:
sw_hunt wrote: Just wish it had CV outs! I couldn't find a decent keyboard with midi and CV outs for less than a System 8. Arturia Brutethings have CV out but only 2 octaves. Did I miss anything?
There are MIDI to CV converters.
There are - I'm using one. It's called a Korg Odyssey Module. Unlike a Kenton, it has two VCOs I can feed into my other Kodule and looks cool.

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Re: Question about midi interfaces.

Post by ats » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:07 pm

I was able to work around the problem of integrating my controller with midi over USB into the rest of my midi setup by using http://www.midiox.com/ to route the data from my controller to my Steinberg UR22 audio / midi interface and from there everything is routed and merged in my JL Cooper MSB 8x8 midi router. It works flawlessly

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Re: Question about midi interfaces.

Post by Solderman » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:25 pm

ats wrote:I was able to work around the problem of integrating my controller with midi over USB into the rest of my midi setup by using http://www.midiox.com/ to route the data from my controller to my Steinberg UR22 audio / midi interface and from there everything is routed and merged in my JL Cooper MSB 8x8 midi router. It works flawlessly
Similar thing here:

Akai MPK49(USB) -> midiox or Reaper -> MotU 828 mkII(Midi Out) -> Kawai MAV-8 midi router

Admittedly, this is probably the pricey option. It also will be more prone to midi latency and jitter. :oops:
You can probably get an M-Audio Oxygen 8 v2 or something similar for cheap. Something with both USB and Midi Out.
I use the Oxygen 8 for auditioning and tweaking midi controlled monosynths, then switch the MAV-8 to give control to the 828 mkII for DAW sequencing purposes.
Just be sure each monosynth has its own unique midi channel. It's recommended to only record one monosynth at a time this way, as more midi data from one source can cause unexpected results in noticeable latency or jitter.

Another alternative, specifically with MotU audio interfaces like the 828 mkII, which have dc coupled outputs, will allow you to bypass midi altogether and sequence analog synths with CV and Gate signals with the MotU audio outputs, while the controls are configured in the DAW using Expert Sleepers Silent Way software. This is still the only way to get proper timing from Ableton Live, as its Midi implementation for external devices has always been problematic with timing. This method will still let you use a USB controller as input to a DAW, but you must configure silent way and connect the MotU interface audio outputs to your monosynth and pass controller data through it.
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