What do you mix hardware with?

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jxalex
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Re: What do you mix hardware with?

Post by jxalex » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:19 pm

pflosi wrote:I don't think this exists. Particularly, because of one requirement: stereo sends.

Even ignoring that, it's hard. Quite a few options if you go for something like four stereo channels and a couple of mono ones (e.g., I'm using a Midas Venice 160 plus separate converters). Another option would be summing boxes, something like the ADT 16 stereo channel summing box, but that's pricey and no sends and ADDA conversion.

How about patchbays?
really the summing mixers are as silly as the expensive mic pre-amplifiers... :D

When I had no mixer at all then I did one simple summing box with one dual-opamp (it required besides that some resistors) and to make a summing mixer with 10 stereo channels were below 10USD. With that I made my first tune with hardware synths. Very plain simple schematic, and easily scalable for bigger schematics and possibility to add even more inputs, or also outputs.

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Re: What do you mix hardware with?

Post by pflosi » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:14 pm

:lol: Whut?
jxalex wrote:
pflosi wrote:I don't think this exists. Particularly, because of one requirement: stereo sends.
and which are these real stereo effect units? And what for to use these?


When I thought to make my own mixing console then I got also idea of making stereo sends, but
I did not went so far. Becouse -- Can someone name real stereo effect units besides compressors, and exciters?
All these flangers/chorus/reverbs are using mono input signals, and even the stereo signal they sum together!
Yes, a lot of fx with stereo in/out sum to mono. But claiming all except compressors (and variants of it) do is absurd! Especially since a lot of (not dual mono) compressors do that as well with their internal sidechain path - which is the reason why results can vary when using a dual mono compressor linked or unlinked (with all controls matched, of course).

How about stereo EQs? True stereo reverbs like Bricasti? All the stereo algorithms on a H3000? All actual stereo delays (e.g., Symetrix 606)? Stereo distortion units (e.g., Elysia Karacter)?

I agree that stereo sends are not really necessary 99% of the time; luckily so, since - as mentioned - it is hard to source them (outside of DJ mixers). But that doesn't mean there are no true stereo fx besides compressors.

As for the ADT summing mixer, I just mentioned that since it was one of the few things that came to my mind with tons of stereo inputs (but still pan and level controls). Yes, it is expensive. But they are incredible pieces of gear. YMMV.

Cheers :drinks:

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Re: What do you mix hardware with?

Post by clubbedtodeath » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:32 pm

sw_hunt wrote:Cubase is telling me the Motu USB UltraLite is costing me 6ms round trip. Doesn't sound a lot?
That's pretty good. But it will be at least double that if you're sending it back out to external effects, and in again, then out again. Enough to be annoying? I wouldn't know.

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Re: What do you mix hardware with?

Post by sw_hunt » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:44 pm

clubbedtodeath wrote:
sw_hunt wrote:Cubase is telling me the Motu USB UltraLite is costing me 6ms round trip. Doesn't sound a lot?
That's pretty good. But it will be at least double that if you're sending it back out to external effects, and in again, then out again. Enough to be annoying? I wouldn't know.
True that. If I decide to use Cubase as my mixer I'll stick with its effects and ditch the external FX (Lexicom MPX500) as the reverb and delays in Cubase seem plenty good enough.

The only effect I really use in stereo is delay when a stereo synth is making two different sounds and I don't want the delay to cross them up.

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Re: What do you mix hardware with?

Post by jxalex » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:50 pm

pflosi wrote: Yes, a lot of fx with stereo in/out sum to mono. But claiming all except compressors (and variants of it) do is absurd! Especially since a lot of (not dual mono) compressors do that as well with their internal sidechain path - which is the reason why results can vary when using a dual mono compressor linked or unlinked (with all controls matched, of course).

How about stereo EQs? True stereo reverbs like Bricasti? All the stereo algorithms on a H3000? All actual stereo delays (e.g., Symetrix 606)? Stereo distortion units (e.g., Elysia Karacter)?

I agree that stereo sends are not really necessary 99% of the time; luckily so, since - as mentioned - it is hard to source them (outside of DJ mixers). But that doesn't mean there are no true stereo fx besides compressors.
I am pretty sure that the thread started did not imagine this kind of equipment, especially if mentioning that the budget for a mixing console is below 700GBP.

Bricasti, oh yeah this kind of high end... this will certainly light up G.A.S. for me, even if not having a pop star like applications. Still so far what I have done is having just Lexicon at my horizont, and so far I use BEHRINGER V-VERBs (the design is good, and the manufacturing flaws with ground loops and psu noise I have ironed out with my modifications).

As for the ADT summing mixer, I just mentioned that since it was one of the few things that came to my mind with tons of stereo inputs (but still pan and level controls). Yes, it is expensive. But they are incredible pieces of gear. YMMV.
I really dont know why expensive? Becouse people are lazy to build it or they do not know that it is
incredibly primitive piece of gear, like a box with a volume control knob in it?


(and now after looking 3000GBP expensive effect units, lets imagine what would think a man using just VSTs (someone outside VSE forum)... :) )

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Re: What do you mix hardware with?

Post by madtheory » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:02 pm

Almost all reverb plugins are true stereo these days. The later Yamaha SPX machines are true stereo. All the Sony and Dynacord boxes as well. It's not unusual!!

And I take back what I said about Focusrite mixer earlier. The MOTU seems to be a lot better- built in real time effects! Are you mixing in realtime, or tracking each synth into the DAW? There's a lot to be said for realtime mixing with a desk.

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Re: What do you mix hardware with?

Post by sw_hunt » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:20 pm

madtheory wrote:Almost all reverb plugins are true stereo these days. The later Yamaha SPX machines are true stereo. All the Sony and Dynacord boxes as well. It's not unusual!!

And I take back what I said about Focusrite mixer earlier. The MOTU seems to be a lot better- built in real time effects! Are you mixing in realtime, or tracking each synth into the DAW? There's a lot to be said for realtime mixing with a desk.
When recording I take each channel directly in to the DAW individulaly. When just playing/noodling I mix externally in the Motu, controlling the mix with their software on my pc. My original question is really about where next when i inevitably run out of inputs on the Motu (currently maxed out)....do I buy a bigger external mixer or buy more d/a inputs and mix in the DAW? Reading everyone's inputs above, there are plusses and minuses for both - haven't decided yet! I'm veering towards more a/d, a bigger patchbay and mixing in the DAW.

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