Analog delay?

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desotoslo
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Re: Analog delay?

Post by desotoslo » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:49 pm

hmm... I kind of think you are chasing a ghost here by trying to have a physical delay unit for your subwoofer.

really think you should look into other solutions, like room treatment, placement of sub, where you are sitting, brand of sub, etc.

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Re: Analog delay?

Post by steveman » Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:05 pm

HUBA wrote: As for the time alignment, the sub sounds way better when played 2.6 ms before the speakers. More tight and solid, less muddy. That should be because the sub is placed about a meter behind the speakers, right?
I doubt that very much. The sub should be producing anything at frequncies related to theat delay time. The fact that you've measured this (I presume?) suggests you've been reading too many Hi-Fi magazines :) and are obsessing over something that's not relevant. I assume that's where you've read the sub must be time aligned too...
Never seen time alignment sold (or even mentioned) with typical monitoring solutions. High end monitoring solutions may have it, but they'll assume you have a purpose built (probably large) studio room .
HUBA wrote: Don't see how room treatment can do the same.
If you're room is causing reflections it could well muddy the bass w/o proper bass traps, far more important than time aligning the sub. Until the room's been dealt with that's not even worth bothering with.

Still really don't have a clue exactly what you're to achieve :?

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Re: Analog delay?

Post by madtheory » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:30 pm

Don't have the space to just move it instead?

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Re: Analog delay?

Post by HUBA » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:09 pm

Thing is that when the time align function is not active I clearly can hear the sub hanging. I've tried to place my sub anywhere and nothing works. It needs to be placed into a wall to work any good and the best place is in my right corner.

When time alignment is on there's no problems. I'm actually surpriced about how easy it was to set up the sub to sound good with the speakers, as many hifi people make it sound like you need to be a rocket scientist to have any hopes of getting it right.

At first I thought the distance settings in my soundcard was just to balance volume, but appearantly it's time alignment.

I checked what settings I actually had done. Turns out I've set the subs distance to 2.6 METERS away. (It's actually more like 4 meters away) And the speakers distance set to 1 meter. (Actual distance is about 3 meters) Nothing in there about milliseconds. Have done no measuring. All speakers settings had a preset distance of 1 meter. I left it that way and only adjusted my subs distance until it sounded in line with the speakers.

In my soundcard the difference in distance between my speakers and sub is therefore 2.6m - 1.0m = 1.6m, while the actual difference is more like a small meter, so it doesn't really add up I guess. However the sub is angled about 45 degrees into the room while the speakers are just barely angled in at all. Don't know if that can explain it. Maybe the distance setting is not totally excact?

BTW, time alignment seems to be included in most home theater amps, and for what I can tell, regularly used as a basic function by users.

I'm really no expert on this subject at all, and I realize my results doesn't seem to back up my ears as very trustworthy, but I find it difficult to belive that room treatment, bass traps and the likes should be able to make the sub play 1 meter or 3 milliseconds into the future..?

Maybe I've read too many of those snake oil magazines.. 8)

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desotoslo
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Re: Analog delay?

Post by desotoslo » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:09 pm

Room treatment and placement are key for you, for anyone. Get thee to the Gearslutz acoustic treatment subforum and post this question there... there are some knowledgeable folks over there who are more than willing to take the time to help you out. :idea:

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Re: Analog delay?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:43 pm

So much wrong in this thread.

Put the sub so it's the same distance from your ears as your other speakers. It's now in phase. All the bad things you're hearing now are the problems with your room, fix them. :thumbright:

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Re: Analog delay?

Post by Mooger5 » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:11 pm

Search the Stereophile online archives. There´s a fine article from J. Gordon Holt regarding nearfield monitoring vs. room reflexions. It´ll provide you some insight.

Verify the frequency you want to mess with and consider wavelengths: a 20Hz full cycle is about 17 metres long ; a 40Hz travels half that distance. Work with quarter-waves for practicability dividing everything by 4. I´d say moving around your sub by a question of a metre would have an impact in the upper bass region at best. If your sub has phase control, use it instead.

Keep in mind a studio control room is not a Hi-Fi listening room. When in the latter the boffin would buy a "better" amp, in the former the engineer would reach for the EQ, or something like that.
Treat your room the best you can, use some reference recordings you´re familiar with and when producing just forget about it.
Herrare umanum est.

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