Pro Tools 9!

Discussions on sound production outside the synthesizer such as mixing, processing, recording, editing and mastering.
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Stab Frenzy
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Re: Pro Tools 9!

Post by Stab Frenzy » Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:13 am

Esus wrote:You'll still need an iLok.

It's still INSANELY expensive.

MIDI functionality still sucks compared to most other DAWs (DP, for one).
:? How is it 'insanely' expensive? It's only $100 more than DP and Logic. It's cheaper than the full version of Live.
Esus wrote:I'm not bashing Pro Tools just because, but after 13+ years, I've dealt with enough "why can't they fix ______?" issues that at best were unanswered, and at worst were ignored. My work takes me to different facilities, and I have to know Pro Tools to do my job. It's a necessary evil. I'm old enough to where I'm not in the mood to learn a new system (although Soundtrack Pro and DP have lots of nice features, and their price tags are definitely more attractive).
This is why it's great that they've finally addressed all the things that people have been wanting fixed for years. I've been using PT since just before 6 came out and love the workflow, and could pretty much mix in my sleep with it. I've got all the keyboard shortcuts in muscle memory.

Anyway, I suppose I should have expected that any thread on VSE is gonna turn into a bitchfest from people who don't even know anything about or use whatever the subject matter is. Thanks to the people who actually responded to this topic properly, the people who are bitching sorry but I'm gonna have to delete your posts to clean things up. Go read the rules of Sound Production before you post in here again, we don't tolerate that kind of c**p in here.

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Re: Pro Tools 9!

Post by Ashe37 » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:22 am

Esus wrote:Wonder why? ;)

Hard to prove, although my guess is that PT is found in the vast majority of professional television and post-production facilities, because of its relatively early adoption by those industries. 15-18 years ago, the main options for that type of random-access tapeless work were Fairlights, Synclaviers, et.al. Pro Tools was obviously an attractive cost-effective alternative. I loosely arrived at the 85% figure because I've heard numerous engineers and sound designers throw that number around. Since there's no way to quantitatively prove those numbers, how about a compromise, and use 65%? :)

Bottom line, I've been a PT user ever since 3; I used a Synclavier Post Pro before that, and a Dyaxis before that.
I'm not bashing Pro Tools just because, but after 13+ years, I've dealt with enough "why can't they fix ______?" issues that at best were unanswered, and at worst were ignored. My work takes me to different facilities, and I have to know Pro Tools to do my job. It's a necessary evil. I'm old enough to where I'm not in the mood to learn a new system (although Soundtrack Pro and DP have lots of nice features, and their price tags are definitely more attractive).

If you're a mixer/designer/editor working for a large facility with a lot of infrastructure, Pro Tools makes sense. Since this is a synth (music) forum, my guess is that most folks are looking for cost-effective solutions to record and mix their tracks. If that's true, there are more music-friendly software options out there than Pro Tools IMO.
Many of the post facilities I or my friends have worked at (or interned at) had slightly older copies of PT on slightly older machines sitting around, and had switched to using Logic for most of their audio editing if they were Mac-based. One specifically had older systems around with PT 5.x on them (this was after PT 7 had shipped) and Logic, even to the point where they had a Mac with Logic (and FCP) on a third monitor in the Smoke bay (s). Keep in mind though, most of the places i know of or have been around were primarily video editing or visual effects houses.

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Re: Pro Tools 9!

Post by sequentialsoftshock » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:35 am

tekkentool wrote:From what i've been seeing people are moving over to logic BIG time.
Yeah, this is DEFINITELY happening. A great deal of bands are using Logic now. With most studios using Apple computers, it makes perfect sense. Maybe you're seeing PT in studios with older equipment, but chances are when they upgrade, they'll switch to Logic. There isn't a huge learning curve either IMO.
b3groover wrote:Depends on the market. Pro studios? I bet it is 85% or higher. Bedroom studios? Not so much.
You might be right, but more and more professional albums are being made in "bedroom studios". What I mean by this is that more bands are building their own studios and recording there.

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Re: Pro Tools 9!

Post by Ashe37 » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:49 am

sequentialsoftshock wrote:
b3groover wrote:Depends on the market. Pro studios? I bet it is 85% or higher. Bedroom studios? Not so much.
You might be right, but more and more professional albums are being made in "bedroom studios". What I mean by this is that more bands are building their own studios and recording there.
Alot of the bands i listen to or play while DJing are using bedroom studios... ok, usually an entire bedroom converted into a studio, but that still qualifies, right?

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Re: Pro Tools 9!

Post by sequentialsoftshock » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:02 am

Ashe37 wrote:
sequentialsoftshock wrote:
b3groover wrote:Depends on the market. Pro studios? I bet it is 85% or higher. Bedroom studios? Not so much.
You might be right, but more and more professional albums are being made in "bedroom studios". What I mean by this is that more bands are building their own studios and recording there.
Alot of the bands i listen to or play while DJing are using bedroom studios... ok, usually an entire bedroom converted into a studio, but that still qualifies, right?
Yeah, that's why I put it in quotations; basically anything not considered a major studio, which the musician owns.
This was recorded entirely in a bedroom-
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Re: Pro Tools 9!

Post by portland » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:18 am

I can see the advantage of hardware processing if you're doing a huge movie score or something, but the most processor use I could get out of the demo songs that came with Logic 9 was 19% (with something like 50 tracks, loads of effects).

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Re: Pro Tools 9!

Post by Stab Frenzy » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:34 am

The thing that you can do with HD that you can't with any other DAW else is have near-zero latency monitoring with plugins on the inputs.

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Re: Pro Tools 9!

Post by 3rdConstruction » Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:59 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:The thing that you can do with HD that you can't with any other DAW else is have near-zero latency monitoring with plugins on the inputs.
Zzzing! THAT sounds pretty attractive. But I'm betting that's specific to HD, yes?
...speaking at length about something is no guarantee that understanding is advanced.

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Re: Pro Tools 9!

Post by Stab Frenzy » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:43 am

Yep. Can't even do it with HD Native.

But you can do similar things with the latest Motu and Metric Halo interfaces sort of, you just can't control them in the DAW the same as you can with HD.

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Re: Pro Tools 9!

Post by Ashe37 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:08 am

portland wrote:I can see the advantage of hardware processing if you're doing a huge movie score or something, but the most processor use I could get out of the demo songs that came with Logic 9 was 19% (with something like 50 tracks, loads of effects).
The "score" test i did for Tom's Hardware Guide's workstation tests was 68% CPU usage on a Core i7 2.66 Ghz (quad core model), and its only like sixteen tracks. Mind you, the softsynths were selected for their CPU usage as well as the sound...

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Re: Pro Tools 9!

Post by tekkentool » Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:14 am

The bitchless thread idea sounds great! :)

Though as far as next to zero latency monitering goes, it isn't unique to PT HD.
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Re: Pro Tools 9!

Post by Stab Frenzy » Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:49 am

Ah but your latency in Renoise will go through the roof if you put plugins on the inputs and try to monitor with them on. Even PT LE has zero latency monitoring on my 002, the difference is that you can't put plugs on unless you're running an integrated DSP system to do the processing for you, processing via CPU takes too long.

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Re: Pro Tools 9!

Post by tekkentool » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:20 pm

Stab Frenzy wrote:Ah but your latency in Renoise will go through the roof if you put plugins on the inputs and try to monitor with them on. Even PT LE has zero latency monitoring on my 002, the difference is that you can't put plugs on unless you're running an integrated DSP system to do the processing for you, processing via CPU takes too long.
That does sound pretty cool :), I was going to do some live sound for a stage production and was thinking about using VST effects bussed live from the mixer. but ruled it out pretty much based on that. School has Pt LE and a 003. Might try that actually. :) thanks!

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Re: Pro Tools 9!

Post by Stab Frenzy » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:59 pm

The LE zero latency monitoring is without plugs.

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Re: Pro Tools 9!

Post by tekkentool » Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:08 pm

Stab Frenzy wrote:The LE zero latency monitoring is without plugs.
Balls. I only really need Low-ish latency anyway though.

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