Low cut or EQ attenuation?

Discussions on sound production outside the synthesizer such as mixing, processing, recording, editing and mastering.
User avatar
calaverasgrande
Expert Member
Expert Member
Posts: 1038
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:29 pm
Gear: MG1, MP201, MF101, MF102, Taurus 3, SH09, KPR-77, Streichfett, Dark Energy, X0Xb0x, Dronelab, Synsonics Drums, Machinedrum, Modular.
Band: N.S.V.
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Low cut or EQ attenuation?

Post by calaverasgrande » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:15 pm

If you have a low cut that has a variable corner frequency you can often cut lows without changing the sound of the track. For instance almost nothing has much happening at 40hz or below. Even kick drums tend to be centered higher than that. I often cut at 40-80hz depending on what it sounds like. For some stuff I cut as high as 300hz (snare, hihat, certain samples).
Of course on less busy tracks you can get away with no low cuts at all. It's when you have a dozen beeps and boops all happening simultaneously that you have to start EQ-ing and panning.
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with all thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave

User avatar
ninja6485
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 2766
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:13 pm
Gear: Virus Ti, Jx-8p, Juno 60, Radias, Maschine, 101,303,606,707,727,808,909, odyssey, mirage, akai s5K/s2K/s1k, drumtraks, E6400ult, M1R, rx5, fizmo,d50
Band: Lyra, The Sun Worshipers
Location: Exton/ westchester

Re: Low cut or EQ attenuation?

Post by ninja6485 » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:08 pm

I think its helpful at this point to bring up the notion that its generally a good idea to equalize less and record better. Is it true that non- liniar phase eqs introduce slight delays or something that can contribute to phase cancellation, perhaps only in extreme cases?
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

User avatar
calaverasgrande
Expert Member
Expert Member
Posts: 1038
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:29 pm
Gear: MG1, MP201, MF101, MF102, Taurus 3, SH09, KPR-77, Streichfett, Dark Energy, X0Xb0x, Dronelab, Synsonics Drums, Machinedrum, Modular.
Band: N.S.V.
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Low cut or EQ attenuation?

Post by calaverasgrande » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:35 am

ninja6485 wrote:I think its helpful at this point to bring up the notion that its generally a good idea to equalize less and record better. Is it true that non- liniar phase eqs introduce slight delays or something that can contribute to phase cancellation, perhaps only in extreme cases?
I use to be more of an electronics tech, so sorry if I cant recall all of this correctly.
All eq is destructive. It either messes with phase, group delay, or it rings or adds distortion. There is no eq that does not degrade the sound.
That said, a low cut is usually one of the least objectionable offenders.
I find the worst ones are high shelf eqs followed by peaking mid eq's
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with all thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave

User avatar
Stab Frenzy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9723
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:41 pm
Gear: Eurorack, RYTM, Ultranova, many FX
Location: monster island*
Contact:

Re: Low cut or EQ attenuation?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:09 am

ninja6485 wrote:I think its helpful at this point to bring up the notion that its generally a good idea to equalize less and record better. Is it true that non- liniar phase eqs introduce slight delays or something that can contribute to phase cancellation, perhaps only in extreme cases?
Non-linear EQs ARE phase cancellation, that's how they effect the tone of your signal.

User avatar
ninja6485
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 2766
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:13 pm
Gear: Virus Ti, Jx-8p, Juno 60, Radias, Maschine, 101,303,606,707,727,808,909, odyssey, mirage, akai s5K/s2K/s1k, drumtraks, E6400ult, M1R, rx5, fizmo,d50
Band: Lyra, The Sun Worshipers
Location: Exton/ westchester

Re: Low cut or EQ attenuation?

Post by ninja6485 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:32 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:
ninja6485 wrote:I think its helpful at this point to bring up the notion that its generally a good idea to equalize less and record better. Is it true that non- liniar phase eqs introduce slight delays or something that can contribute to phase cancellation, perhaps only in extreme cases?
Non-linear EQs ARE phase cancellation, that's how they effect the tone of your signal.
so the potential for unwanted phase cancelation is a byproduct of the process by which they effect the tone of the signal in such cases?
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

User avatar
Stab Frenzy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9723
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:41 pm
Gear: Eurorack, RYTM, Ultranova, many FX
Location: monster island*
Contact:

Re: Low cut or EQ attenuation?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:52 am

You could say that. I'd just say unwanted phase cancellation is a potential byproduct of wanted phase cancellation. :D

User avatar
portland
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 10:33 pm
Real name: Zakarias
Gear: Elektron Machinedrum UW+, GEM S2, Roland S-760, Korg SDD-3300, Kawai Q-80, Yamaha TG-77, Yamaha 01x, Adam A7s, Logic Studio, Reaktor 5
Band: Romeo Alfa
Location: The Mind Dimension
Contact:

Re: Low cut or EQ attenuation?

Post by portland » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:57 am

Someone just pointed this out to me recently when I was mixing a live band. I used to think you should EQ everything to make it "perfect" / get flat response from your speakers/room. Then I just did a three day concert where I used almost no EQ on anything, just repositioned mics/monitors, and it sounded great. Of course, this was outside and I had a QSC active system for mains and EAW LA212s for monitors, so that makes things easy... ;)

User avatar
psyfi
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:08 pm

Re: Low cut or EQ attenuation?

Post by psyfi » Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:48 pm

I wouldn't highpass a bass line at 100Hz that would be removing al the bass from it. if your trying to tget it to fit with your kick then they may be something wrong with your kick if you think you need to high pass @ 100Hz. With psytrance what is important is to get the pitch of your kick working with the pitch of your bass line and to concentrate on the balance of the first few harmonics of the patch path. you don't want to the kick to over lap the bass notes but you want it to have the same rough pitch so the when it hits on the first beat it sounds like part of the rolling 16ths bass pattern.
I would high pass a bass patch but more likely it would be at 30 to 40 Hz simply to remove lower unneeded frequencies that would effect my compressor other wise. Everything else apart from bass and kick would be high passed to give all important low frequencies the room they need.
Shelving or bell curve cut / boost would be fine to balance the frequencies but I wouldn't remove them all together from your bass.

User avatar
calaverasgrande
Expert Member
Expert Member
Posts: 1038
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:29 pm
Gear: MG1, MP201, MF101, MF102, Taurus 3, SH09, KPR-77, Streichfett, Dark Energy, X0Xb0x, Dronelab, Synsonics Drums, Machinedrum, Modular.
Band: N.S.V.
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Low cut or EQ attenuation?

Post by calaverasgrande » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:20 pm

sometimes I do low cut at 100hz but then boost with a peaking filter at 80hz. using a 6db oct Low cut filter this gives you a tight pop at 80hz with a good slope off below that. While kicks are3 supposed to be low I find that more often than not 80hz is where the kick really lives.
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with all thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave

User avatar
kerpan
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:55 pm
Gear: Roland Juno-106, Roland JX-10, Casio CZ-1, Akai S3000XL
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Re: Low cut or EQ attenuation?

Post by kerpan » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:06 am

I don't think I saw anyone talking about this...

Play around with compressing your bass, and keying the compressor to the kick drum. It'll only compress when the kick drum triggers the compressor, if you set it right.

It might help... look it up, there should be some info out on Youtube or some forums.

User avatar
portland
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 10:33 pm
Real name: Zakarias
Gear: Elektron Machinedrum UW+, GEM S2, Roland S-760, Korg SDD-3300, Kawai Q-80, Yamaha TG-77, Yamaha 01x, Adam A7s, Logic Studio, Reaktor 5
Band: Romeo Alfa
Location: The Mind Dimension
Contact:

Re: Low cut or EQ attenuation?

Post by portland » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:21 am

calaverasgrande wrote:sometimes I do low cut at 100hz but then boost with a peaking filter at 80hz. using a 6db oct Low cut filter this gives you a tight pop at 80hz with a good slope off below that. While kicks are3 supposed to be low I find that more often than not 80hz is where the kick really lives.
This is a good trick for live sound if you want to tighten up your subs and don't have a compressor handy

Post Reply