High end preamp ideal for P8?

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Stab Frenzy
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Re: High end preamp ideal for P8?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:12 am

smith toppleton wrote:Did I mistake VSE for an Apple forum?

"Can anyone recommend a good X?"
"X is dumb. Why do you want X?"
Nobody is saying preamps are dumb, we're just saying a preamp isn't the right tool for the job in this particular case.

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Re: High end preamp ideal for P8?

Post by varun213 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:46 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:A preamp is a device used to get a low level signal such as a mic, phono or instrument signal amplified up to line level so it can interface with line level devices like audio interfaces etc. the Prophet 08 outputs a line level signal already, therefore it doesn't need a preamp.

The levels of cluelessness from some people in this thread are getting out of control. I suggest you read the rules of sound production before posting here again.
sorry about that . How about a tube amp like this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261578782730?rmvSB=true

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Re: High end preamp ideal for P8?

Post by piRoN » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:04 am

The point is that this:
I think DSI instruments have alot of color I just want to be able to record in without raising the master volume too high on the Synth itself.
Shows that you're willing to drop a whole lot of cash on a 1% difference in audio, when you haven't even learnt the basics of gain staging. Why would you want to lower the level of the master out? All you'd be doing is increasing the noise level of your output.
The sound I get from the p8 is amazing but I have to record it HOT everytime for a decent level. That is the problem. I rather have the preamp/DI do the Amping rather than the synth.
The synth is not doing any "amping" - the internal signal levels of the synth are generally higher than line level to begin with. By dropping the output level of your synth, you're reducing the signal level prior to the output buffer/amplifier, which means you're now getting the same noise level off the output buffer/amp, with less signal.

Preamps are nice to record through, but you need to have all the basics well and truly sorted before they're of any value whatsoever. That 1% difference only becomes significant when everything else in the stack is already over 95%.
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Re: High end preamp ideal for P8?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:18 am

varun213 wrote:
Stab Frenzy wrote:A preamp is a device used to get a low level signal such as a mic, phono or instrument signal amplified up to line level so it can interface with line level devices like audio interfaces etc. the Prophet 08 outputs a line level signal already, therefore it doesn't need a preamp.

The levels of cluelessness from some people in this thread are getting out of control. I suggest you read the rules of sound production before posting here again.
sorry about that . How about a tube amp like this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261578782730?rmvSB=true
Are you aware that's also a preamp?

As has been suggested you should have a read of some information on gain staging. Also it would be great if you could articulate a bit more clearly what you're trying to achieve. "I rather have the preamp/DI do the Amping rather than the synth" doesn't really make any sense.

Lastly, what is your monitoring situation?

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Re: High end preamp ideal for P8?

Post by pflosi » Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:25 am

varun213 wrote:Basically Iwant to bring out the best of these two synths so it sounds really balanced and nice going into my Daw.
(My emphasis.)

Could it be that we are having a little problem with the wording here? This quote looks to me like the OP wants a more "balanced" tone in the subjective sense of "even, well-adjusted, nice, organic" tone and whatever other adjectives one can come up with.

He researches "balancing" and comes up with DI plus preamp (which is, obviously, also not the best solution for balancing a line level device, but that's a different topic). But it's a completely different meaning of "balanced". A technical term that has nothing to do with "phat soundz" and so on.

Could that be the issue, varun213? If yes, forget about the DI and preamp. If no, tell us in a precise and straightforward manner what problem you are actually trying to solve.

Cheers :drinks:

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Re: High end preamp ideal for P8?

Post by Mooger5 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:51 am

Looks like the OP was trying to run the synth and drum machine through the UR44´s mic inputs instead of the line inputs on the back, hence the bad sound so far and the idea a higher end mic preamp will cure it.
Apologies if I´m wrong.
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Re: High end preamp ideal for P8?

Post by Mooger5 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:02 am

See, the first and second inputs are for mic/guitar only.

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Re: High end preamp ideal for P8?

Post by madtheory » Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:21 am

Well now Mooger and pflosi, that shows empathy and intelligence, well done. Hopefully we haven't scared off OP! Goddam GS and the pre amp mythology they've constructed over there.

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Re: High end preamp ideal for P8?

Post by varun213 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:34 am

Mooger5 wrote:See, the first and second inputs are for mic/guitar only.

Image
I use line 1 and 2 for the Prophet '08..would you say I got in the back? does it even matter?

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Re: High end preamp ideal for P8?

Post by varun213 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:38 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:
varun213 wrote:
Stab Frenzy wrote:A preamp is a device used to get a low level signal such as a mic, phono or instrument signal amplified up to line level so it can interface with line level devices like audio interfaces etc. the Prophet 08 outputs a line level signal already, therefore it doesn't need a preamp.

The levels of cluelessness from some people in this thread are getting out of control. I suggest you read the rules of sound production before posting here again.
sorry about that . How about a tube amp like this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261578782730?rmvSB=true
Are you aware that's also a preamp?

As has been suggested you should have a read of some information on gain staging. Also it would be great if you could articulate a bit more clearly what you're trying to achieve. "I rather have the preamp/DI do the Amping rather than the synth" doesn't really make any sense.

Lastly, what is your monitoring situation?
So whats your suggestion for adding more Color and Character to the P8? or is that not valid wording :lol: .
I

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Re: High end preamp ideal for P8?

Post by varun213 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:40 am

Mooger5 wrote:Looks like the OP was trying to run the synth and drum machine through the UR44´s mic inputs instead of the line inputs on the back, hence the bad sound so far and the idea a higher end mic preamp will cure it.
Apologies if I´m wrong.

holy s**t thats exactly what ive been doing. Never knew the mic inputs are bad for Analog synths. If thats what you're getting at?

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Re: High end preamp ideal for P8?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:55 am

varun213 wrote: So whats your suggestion for adding more Color and Character to the P8? or is that not valid wording :lol: .
I
If you want character and colour the P08 isn't the best choice. I'd ditch it and get something like the Prophet 6. Or just ignore everyone who's trying to help you and buy that Sebatron, it's a great mic pre.

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Re: High end preamp ideal for P8?

Post by pflosi » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:04 pm

If you really wanna splash some cash for color on synths, have a look at (ordered by price) Germanium diode overdrive pedals (e.g. MXR 104), the Warm Audio TB12, Overstayer stuff (M-A-S and NT-02A especially), Thermionic Culture stuff. But there's tons of options out there. What other gear do you have that might overdrive nicely? Mixers (Boss BX, Boss KM series are nice), old fx (space echos have beautiful input stages), stuff like that?

And yeah, read up on gainstaging anyways. That knowledge is more important than any high end pre. Here are two good threads to get you started:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... d311d74f72
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... a4a92eac5c

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Re: High end preamp ideal for P8?

Post by Mooger5 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:20 pm

varun213 wrote: I use line 1 and 2 for the Prophet '08..would you say I got in the back? does it even matter?
varun213 wrote: holy s**t thats exactly what ive been doing. Never knew the mic inputs are bad for Analog synths. If thats what you're getting at?
That´s it, inputs 1 and 2 aren ´t line inputs. I´m not saying mic inputs are bad for analog synths, it´s rather the opposite: the mic pre expects very faint signals and a line level signal will overload it, making the synth sound distorted. There´s a proper way to set things up first, only after that less orthodox aproaches should be tried.

I´m all for adding tone and character to any synth that could otherwise sound bland in some specific situation. There are equalizers, compressors, pedals, even crappy old mixers will colour the sound in some way.

Good luck.
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Re: High end preamp ideal for P8?

Post by madtheory » Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:09 pm

Yay! Problem solved.

You can always record a clean sound (via the line input :) ) and colour with a plugin. I love Sound Toys Echo Boy. Set the delay time to zero and play with the tweak settings, it does everything a collection of funky old boxes can do, and more. Plus it's instantly recallable.

It may be that the Prophet 6 is not the solution you require. For example Com Truise does a lot of plugin processing on DCO synths. He uses that plugin that lets you sample the distortion from any box, and expand it:

http://www.tritonedigital.com/index.php ... &Itemid=20

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