SY-77 vs DX-7IIFD

A forum for comparing two or more synths against each other. Also known as "versus" threads.
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b3groover
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Re: SY-77 vs DX-7IIFD

Post by b3groover » Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:46 pm

Your first statement is purely subjective. The SY77 is not worse or better than the DX7, it is different. It was never meant to be a drop-in replacement for the DX7. It is it's own synthesizer. Because your own expectations were not met you are disappointed and so you think the DX7II is better. Having owned both a DX7 and the SY77 for many years, I disagree.

The implementation of FM on the SY77 is different than the DX series. In many ways it is better than the DX, in some ways it is not. Whether the pros and cons of those differences combine to produce an instrument that is better or worse is purely personal opinion.

The simple fact is the SY77 can do things that the DX7/DX7II cannot. And vice versa (although the list of things it cannot replicate from the DX series is very small). The same can be said of the FS1r. It is yet another different implementation of FM sythesis, no better or worse than the others, just different. Had I been expecting it to replace my SY77, I would be disappointed. But thankfully I view it as a companion.

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Re: SY-77 vs DX-7IIFD

Post by Chas » Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:10 am

Interesting to read these pros and cons.

As for me, I finally have a SY77 sitting here in my studio - without power! I've got a step down transformer on its way.

Looking forward to powering it up and seeing what it can do.

I have noticed though just from playing the keys that they are very clicky, like I mean loud clicky! Does this indicate some sort of dirt of the contacts or something?

Chas

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Re: SY-77 vs DX-7IIFD

Post by b3groover » Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:26 am

Nope, that's how the are! :)

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Re: SY-77 vs DX-7IIFD

Post by Chas » Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:33 am

b3groover wrote:Nope, that's how the are! :)
Wow! It's definitely a very different action to any other keys I've played. Will take some getting use to.

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Re: SY-77 vs DX-7IIFD

Post by mrfrisky330 » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:32 am

Checking the Yamaha SY77 manual reminded me of why I bought it in the first place, if I may bring to jurys attention page 11 (PDF page 23)

"Traditional FM: The AFM tone generator can be used alone to produce any sound that the DX series was capable of, and much more."

Which is BS. Big sloppy BS, if you try and create a patch "as is" it sounds way to high and all wrong (if you can find the DX7 algorithm of course as some are missing), so you have to drop the whole thing by an octave (which knackers the sound quality) and re-align the EG rates which is fine if it was ALL 0-127 but 0-63? What idiot thought of that?? A RATIO for the EG step?? Bet he doesn't work for Yamaha anymore, just thank God he didn't work on the Motif....

So from Yamaha's own mouth your falsely lead into believing with minimal alteration you can re-create any DX7 sound as good as the DX7. Which you can't mainly because the EG ratio makes a big effect on velocity amplitude reaction. Put the DX7 and the SY77 together play the Bells patch on the DX7 and turn off the SY77's effects and try to get a Bells patch that sounds as good, you can't!

What Yamaha should have done is either fully implement the FM from the DX7 and make all values go up to 127 for a proper stepped range response, or state in the manual it was a "new" version of FM thats not completely compatible with the DX7 but is much better in other ways (which it is).

The ability to do analogue style wave shapes per carrier/modulator is class, the ability to layer FM is class, the ability to layer FM and AWM, is class but why 4AWM and no 4FM???

Anyway, you can't really compare the DX7 to the SY77 as they are two completely different synthesizers, its like comparing a Mini with a GTO.

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Re: SY-77 vs DX-7IIFD

Post by b3groover » Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:37 pm

mrfrisky330 wrote:Checking the Yamaha SY77 manual reminded me of why I bought it in the first place, if I may bring to jurys attention page 11 (PDF page 23)

"Traditional FM: The AFM tone generator can be used alone to produce any sound that the DX series was capable of, and much more."

Which is BS. Big sloppy BS, if you try and create a patch "as is" it sounds way to high and all wrong (if you can find the DX7 algorithm of course as some are missing), so you have to drop the whole thing by an octave (which knackers the sound quality)
Why would transposing down an octave affect the sound quality?

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Re: SY-77 vs DX-7IIFD

Post by aeon » Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:40 am

mrfrisky330 wrote:(if you can find the DX7 algorithm of course as some are missing)
Given the user-defined algorithms of the SY-series, this is a non-issue. All the DX algos (and more) can be realized.


cheers,
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Re: SY-77 vs DX-7IIFD

Post by Pro5 » Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:15 pm

mrfrisky330 wrote: If you wanted to be brutal you could buy a DX7 (which ever one you want) and an SY85, you get more effects than the SY99 and the same dodgy sampling facility ;D

Seriously though my SY77 is very nice at what it does and the combination synthesis is very nice, but if I had the space I would definately have the DX7s/II as well for proper FM sounds.

They really are two different instruments, the SY77 is no direct FM replacement for the DX7 its more of a "come and use the AWM2 instead, really you'll love it" than a super fully implemented DX7 with a AWM2 engine along side.
.I have all 3 of these synths (DX7 II, SY77, SY85) and hands down the SY77 is the best out of the 3. It's more alive, it's more powerful, it's nicer to control, it's the best built and with the best features. Whether it's FM is 'identical' to the DX7's FM Isn't the point for me (having both I don't get too bogged down trying to replicated DX7 sounds on the SY77) but the sounds that ONLY the SY77 can are mindblowing! I can rarely find a bad patch that uses FM on the SY77.

About the AWM, I honestly don't use it that much on the '77... if a custom patch happens to have a bit then fair enough but normally my ears 'light up' on a patch as I scroll through custom disks, I look at the screen and it's pure FM no AWM! Even with the effects turned off the FM underneath sounds very deep/interesting. And while I really like the DX7 (through effects) on it's own it's not as 'interesting' sounding I found, factor in the extras and the SY77 is almost like Yamaha's answer to a D-50 (in *NON* PCM mode) - which is a good thing, by that I mean that rare 'magical' digital synth in an otherwise 'too usual' digital synth world. It's not as warm as the D-50, but it's more flexible and can turn it's hand to anything... and great for solo playing too, it's a bit of a powerhouse, the D-50 isn' t a powerhouse by any means, but a magical 'one -off' thing that has character. Anyway, they both are more interesting than the SY85. The SY85 is the pure rompler, and has some good sounds but it's no SY77! (even if it DOES have better effects + limited sample thing)

SY77 doesn't sound clinical or sterile, nor does the D-50 (in Struct mode 1 'virtual analog' basically), the DX7 often sounds clinical and sterile and needs beefing up more with effects. ANd most romplers that followed the SY77 sound clincal and sterile, so I think both the D-50 and the SY77 were the 'sweet spots' for the 2 Biggys as their attempts at these hyrbid techs in the early days seem to yield the most interesting results 20 years later (for digital synths).

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Re: SY-77 vs DX-7IIFD

Post by crystalmsc » Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:16 am

Pro5 wrote:the D-50 isn' t a powerhouse by any means, but a magical 'one -off' thing that has character. Anyway, they both are more interesting than the SY85. The SY85 is the pure rompler, and has some good sounds but it's no SY77! (even if it DOES have better effects + limited sample thing)
agree, I'm a TG huge fan (own the 77/500/33). While I love them all, the 77 is the most expressive synth to me, and the D-50 is the sweetest.
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