SY-77 vs DX-7IIFD

A forum for comparing two or more synths against each other. Also known as "versus" threads.
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Re: SY-77 vs DX-7IIFD

Post by Chas » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:39 am

Well, I have borrowed an XP-30 from a friend and I love it.

AND I have bought a SY-77 from the states... just waiting for it to arrive via snail-mail.

Thanks for the help!

Chas

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Re: SY-77 vs DX-7IIFD

Post by Pro5 » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:52 am

Chas wrote:Well, I have borrowed an XP-30 from a friend and I love it.

AND I have bought a SY-77 from the states... just waiting for it to arrive via snail-mail.

Thanks for the help!

Chas
Congrats, but the pedant in me would like to point out there is no hyphen in 'SY77' officially ;) Roland were the hyphen lovers.

SY77 should c**p all over an XP-30 from a pure/powerful synthesis standpoint (not from a Rompler/realistic sounds point of view though... perhaps), I'm sure you'll be happy with it. I love it, it's one of my 'main boards' now that I turn to and know it won't let me down.

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Re: SY-77 vs DX-7IIFD

Post by Chas » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:14 am

Cool trivia Pro5! :lol: You need to tell that to the VSE front page review editor.

Seriously, thanks for your help on the first page... :D

Chas

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Re: SY-77 vs DX-7IIFD

Post by Pro5 » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:59 pm

Chas wrote:Cool trivia Pro5! :lol: You need to tell that to the VSE front page review editor.

Seriously, thanks for your help on the first page... :D

Chas
The admin/owner of the site who wrote those reviews is a law unto himself, correct synth names, going prices, and 'this synth is not as good as this other synth' opinion stated as fact - included. :mrgreen:

And while I'm on that subject, DX7 has no hyphen either ;) (only on the mk2 between the 'II' and 'D' or 'FD'), I'm only messing around here so of course don't take me seriously :) And I also appreciate the work put in by the admin/owner on all the synth pages.

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Re: SY-77 vs DX-7IIFD

Post by HideawayStudio » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:15 pm

Pro5 wrote:
adamstan wrote:The only drawback of SY77 when comparing it to DX7II is its size and weight - it's larger and much heavier.
True but it doesn't make much diff in a 'studio' (maybe on the road). It's not ultra massive like the SY99 (or JX10 etc). They both fit on the same stands that I have (depth and height). I think the extras of the '77 make the size unimportant if you have a room of synths anyway, but it is probably my heaviest synth and I wouldn't want to carry it around as much as something like the feather light AN1x.
Hehe... size!... my EII dwarfs my SY77 in height and depth! This actually makes the EII a real sod to put on a stand. Actually the SY77 isn't much bigger than the DX7 - they are both housed in mainly metal chassis and both quite heavy - but heavy is good - they are both built like tanks!

I will bet my life too that Yamaha gear will prove to be by far the most reliable with extreme age over pretty much any synth manufacturer around :)

As for SY77 not being a classic - I just don't agree. The SY77 has been a workhorse in many studios since 1990 but less on stage - so it's less "famous" through TV exposure but the 77 has been used on countless famous recordings and has been a secret weapon in the production of many new age and ambient sample CDs too.

808 State, Brian Eno, William Orbit, Roxette, Skinny Puppy and many others often used the SY77 in their recordings.

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Re: SY-77 vs DX-7IIFD

Post by Chas » Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:26 pm

As for SY77 not being a classic - I just don't agree. The SY77 has been a workhorse in many studios since 1990 but less on stage - so it's less "famous" through TV exposure but the 77 has been used on countless famous recordings and has been a secret weapon in the production of many new age and ambient sample CDs too.

808 State, Brian Eno, William Orbit, Roxette, Skinny Puppy and many others often used the SY77 in their recordings.
The great Mr David Paich was an inspiring factor which helped me make my purchase. :wink:

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Re: SY-77 vs DX-7IIFD

Post by Pro5 » Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:43 pm

No it's 'fame' is nowhere near that of the DX7, D-50, M1, Minimoog, Jupiter 8 etc... as much as we know how good the SY77 is it's hardly a legendary synth is it? Even if used on famous songs by famous people. Still If it is a classic by consensous then I'm all for it as I can add it to the D-50 and DX7 in my 'collection' of digital classics ;)

I find the word 'classic' used a bit too often these days, namely on ebay to describe any synth over ten years old :lol:

and many synths have had many artists use them (JX-8P for example) but does that mean we also have to call that a 'classic'? or just a synth that was released and did it's job for many working artists (as expected)?

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Re: SY-77 vs DX-7IIFD

Post by HideawayStudio » Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:58 pm

Pro5 wrote:No it's 'fame' is nowhere near that of the DX7, D-50, M1, Minimoog, Jupiter 8 etc... as much as we know how good the SY77 is it's hardly a legendary synth is it? Even if used on famous songs by famous people. Still If it is a classic by consensous then I'm all for it as I can add it to the D-50 and DX7 in my 'collection' of digital classics ;)

I find the word 'classic' used a bit too often these days, namely on ebay to describe any synth over ten years old :lol:

and many synths have had many artists use them (JX-8P for example) but does that mean we also have to call that a 'classic'? or just a synth that was released and did it's job for many working artists (as expected)?
I find the word "rare" to be massively overused on eBay! Whether it is "famous" or not I don't care - all I do know is that the SY77 will always have a place in studios around the world. The SY77 was Yamaha's flagship synth for some time and was probably too expensive for many. It has clearly enjoyed a come back in the last few years brought on by those can actually be bothered to sit down and discover what it has to offer. Like the D-50 and DX7 it is a real and very deep synthesizer just waiting to make new sounds - something the SY85 or M1 is never really going to do.

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Re: SY-77 vs DX-7IIFD

Post by Pro5 » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:43 pm

HideawayStudio wrote:
Pro5 wrote:No it's 'fame' is nowhere near that of the DX7, D-50, M1, Minimoog, Jupiter 8 etc... as much as we know how good the SY77 is it's hardly a legendary synth is it? Even if used on famous songs by famous people. Still If it is a classic by consensous then I'm all for it as I can add it to the D-50 and DX7 in my 'collection' of digital classics ;)

I find the word 'classic' used a bit too often these days, namely on ebay to describe any synth over ten years old :lol:

and many synths have had many artists use them (JX-8P for example) but does that mean we also have to call that a 'classic'? or just a synth that was released and did it's job for many working artists (as expected)?
I find the word "rare" to be massively overused on eBay! Whether it is "famous" or not I don't care - all I do know is that the SY77 will always have a place in studios around the world. The SY77 was Yamaha's flagship synth for some time and was probably too expensive for many. It has clearly enjoyed a come back in the last few years brought on by those can actually be bothered to sit down and discover what it has to offer. Like the D-50 and DX7 it is a real and very deep synthesizer just waiting to make new sounds - something the SY85 or M1 is never really going to do.
Hey I know all this myself :) You won't find me disagreeing about THAT. I guess we just have different meanings to the word 'classic' and I only bring it up now because you mentioned how you didn't agree on me saying it wasn't a 'classic' in comparison to the DX7 (in my first post?), and by classic yes I meant legendary and famous not just a respected workhorse. If you are saying classic means 'a great synth' then yes the SY77 is a classic.

My use of the word classic in the first post was intended to be in the most obvious way, that of it being a 'famous' synth that many of us wanted to own for a long time (maybe/usually as kids) D-50, Moogs, Prophet 5, DX7, Jupiter 8, Fairlight, Emulators, CS80 etc are all good examples of that... SY77, amazing synth as it is (and it is one of my favourites) could never be said to have been an 'object of desire' to many people then and now. Anyway I won't go on about it, just wanted to clear up my use of the classic word and it wasn't wrong use at all - it's obvious a DX7 is an ICONIC machine where they SY77 isn't, nothing to do with their respective capabilities or who has used them or how good they are now. :)

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Re: SY-77 vs DX-7IIFD

Post by HideawayStudio » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:47 pm

Pro5 wrote:
HideawayStudio wrote:
Pro5 wrote:No it's 'fame' is nowhere near that of the DX7, D-50, M1, Minimoog, Jupiter 8 etc... as much as we know how good the SY77 is it's hardly a legendary synth is it? Even if used on famous songs by famous people. Still If it is a classic by consensous then I'm all for it as I can add it to the D-50 and DX7 in my 'collection' of digital classics ;)

I find the word 'classic' used a bit too often these days, namely on ebay to describe any synth over ten years old :lol:

and many synths have had many artists use them (JX-8P for example) but does that mean we also have to call that a 'classic'? or just a synth that was released and did it's job for many working artists (as expected)?
I find the word "rare" to be massively overused on eBay! Whether it is "famous" or not I don't care - all I do know is that the SY77 will always have a place in studios around the world. The SY77 was Yamaha's flagship synth for some time and was probably too expensive for many. It has clearly enjoyed a come back in the last few years brought on by those can actually be bothered to sit down and discover what it has to offer. Like the D-50 and DX7 it is a real and very deep synthesizer just waiting to make new sounds - something the SY85 or M1 is never really going to do.
Hey I know all this myself :) You won't find me disagreeing about THAT. I guess we just have different meanings to the word 'classic' and I only bring it up now because you mentioned how you didn't agree on me saying it wasn't a 'classic' in comparison to the DX7 (in my first post?), and by classic yes I meant legendary and famous not just a respected workhorse. If you are saying classic means 'a great synth' then yes the SY77 is a classic.

My use of the word classic in the first post was intended to be in the most obvious way, that of it being a 'famous' synth that many of us wanted to own for a long time (maybe/usually as kids) D-50, Moogs, Prophet 5, DX7, Jupiter 8, Fairlight, Emulators, CS80 etc are all good examples of that... SY77, amazing synth as it is (and it is one of my favourites) could never be said to have been an 'object of desire' to many people then and now. Anyway I won't go on about it, just wanted to clear up my use of the classic word and it wasn't wrong use at all - it's obvious a DX7 is an ICONIC machine where they SY77 isn't, nothing to do with their respective capabilities or who has used them or how good they are now. :)
:) Absolutely!

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Re: SY-77 vs DX-7IIFD

Post by 0e0 » Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:55 pm

The SY77 is one of the best digital synths ever. The keyboard feel (great aftertouch response) is amazing and the two mod-wheels is a nice touch! Programming FM is really easy on it. Screen is large and page jumping is easy. Alphadial and Keypad and Data entry fader give you a lot of options for entering parameters.

The filters are very strange but it's definitely a luxury on an FM synth..so is the fully featured Rompler and oh ya FX (s**t reverbs though). The sequencer isn't bad either.

it's no contest.

j

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Re: SY-77 vs DX-7IIFD

Post by Chas » Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:16 pm

Awesome.

Question, does the SY77 have some sort of internal power tap which will allow me to set it for 240V?

And is it something I can easily do myself?

Thanks :D

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Re: SY-77 vs DX-7IIFD

Post by HideawayStudio » Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:45 pm

Chas wrote:Awesome.

Question, does the SY77 have some sort of internal power tap which will allow me to set it for 240V?

And is it something I can easily do myself?

Thanks :D
I don't remember seeing a voltage tap on the transformer and I very much doubt it has one.

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Re: SY-77 vs DX-7IIFD

Post by Chas » Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:58 pm

Damn it! The deal I had going fell over when the seller LOST my SY77 in transit! He is refunding me... so the hunt is back on.

If you have a SY77 or a SY99 for sale, please contact me.

Regards,
Chas

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Re: SY-77 vs DX-7IIFD

Post by mrfrisky330 » Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:21 pm

The thing to remember is contrary to the Yamaha manual the SY77's FM is not as good as the DX7s.

Sounds wrong doesn't it? But its true!! If you try to convert a DX7 patch to the SY77 it does not sound the same, usually its radically wrong!!

If the SY77 had the same FM as the DX7 this would not be the case, but for some reason Yamaha knackered it in too ways:

- The synth is one octave higher in pitch than the DX7 (so you have to use the function to detune the voice by one octave which knackers the sound quality and makes it slightly woolly and muffled)
- The EG parameters have a maximum of 63 NOT 99 (DX7) or 127 (MIDI?) and because the EG is incremented by a rate of 1.52 opposed to 1 the EG waveform changes almost exponentially as the value increases radically altering the wave shape thus making your lovely DX7 patch sound bad!

As a bonus ball Yamaha has omitted some of the DX7s algorithms like 15 for example, so you left with trying to butcher the closest match the SY77 has and because its modifier path is different you fail (yet again) to get the sound anywhere near.

However. If you create the sound from scratch FOR the SY77 (its an octave higher) it gets closer but that cack handed EG ratio (which is 1.571 per increment) means the SY77 never quite equals your DX7 sound....

If you wanted to be brutal you could buy a DX7 (which ever one you want) and an SY85, you get more effects than the SY99 and the same dodgy sampling facility ;D

Seriously though my SY77 is very nice at what it does and the combination synthesis is very nice, but if I had the space I would definately have the DX7s/II as well for proper FM sounds.

They really are two different instruments, the SY77 is no direct FM replacement for the DX7 its more of a "come and use the AWM2 instead, really you'll love it" than a super fully implemented DX7 with a AWM2 engine along side.

If you want FM its DX7 II all the way (or the much better DX5/DX1), if you want old style combination synthesis get the SY77 (its sequencer is genius).

Me i'm sticking to my old Crumar Bit One and my SY77 supported by the A3000 sampler....joy!!

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