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Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:31 am
by madtheory
Indeed. Have to agree, if you're demoing a synth, leave out external effects. We want to hear what the synth sounds like.

Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:33 pm
by LucB
Original Jambo: I liked it very much. There was a Logan (i keep thinking Lowrey hehehe ) String Melody I in dire need for love that i could have add for 60$ CAD but i let it pass because i'm tired of repairs and maintenance and wanted to wait to buy a Meloy II. I hate myself for doing this because i realize now the chances of finding an affordable Melody II in good condition are very very thin.

I'm alright with delay/reverb, whatever you purists say. Obviously a dry demo is always cool, but i don't see it as heresy when someone adds reverb/delay/chorus, i just think the person should specify (as you did) when and what he adds.

Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:28 pm
by BoxPhenom
Yeah Luc, I hate myself for letting that one go!

Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:08 am
by madtheory
But the effects are not part of the synth. You are not buying the synth with the effects included. It's a variable that will change the quality of the sound, and give a misleading representation of the synth. It's enough to have to deal with the mp3 compression, let's keep it simple! It's not a purist thing at all.

Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:09 pm
by Christopher Winkels
I tend to agree with the "no effects" ethos. If a little bit of reverb is fine, then why stop there? Why not add a little more, and a little more to "sweeten it up"?

Otherwise, what's to stop me from running a synth through a pitch-shifter to thicken it up, then some arena-style reverb and quadrature chorus and claim "it sounds huuuuge!" You can run an 8-bit 12kHz weasel fart sample through an effects chain like that and it's almost guaranteed to sound big and fat.

Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:29 pm
by Joey
if your purpose is to demo a synth, then unless it has internal fx, don't use any FX. (internal fx are just as much a part of the sound engine as the synth engine itself)

however, when I record an actual song, no sound is left unprocessed

Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:38 pm
by madtheory
Please don't muddy the waters. We were talking about synth demos...

Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:41 pm
by pflosi
werent we talking bout the mg-1 vs the rogue? ;)

Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:25 am
by madtheory
HEHEH, o ya! :)

Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:53 pm
by OriginalJambo
pflosi wrote:werent we talking bout the mg-1 vs the rogue? ;)
Touché!

Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:12 am
by octopede
I got my MG1 because, at the time, the cheapest Rogue I could find was $700 (I think at least $200 of that was the word 'MOOG' clearly visible on the back). I've come to love my MG1, despite its cheap plastic parts and Radio Shack aesthetic, and the little polychip sound comes in useful every now and then.

But, if I may slightly bridge over to the FX-themed portion of this thread...I'll almost never put a anything in a mix without something...reverb, delay, or even micing it thru a Fisher Price speaker, whatever. With that considered, I don't see any qualitiative audio difference in the MG1 v. Rogue. I like to envision a 'My Fair Lady' sort of thing...the MG-1 can be taken from its trashy Radio Shack background, sweetened up (and, uh, have the black gunk cleaned out, which I think happened in 'My Fair Lady', too, right?) and made into a Rogue. But, I should also add that Rogues and MG-1s are going for about the same price on the Ebays right now.

Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:45 pm
by Neonlights84
redchapterjubilee wrote:Moog Rogue = 100% Moog build and parts
Realistic/Moog MG-1 = 100% Moog build but not 100% Moog parts

The MG-1 does not use Moog oscillators or VCA's. That is indeed a Moog 24dB VCF in it though. I've AB'ed an MG-1 with a friend's Rogue, that it has been probably five years since. I remember at the time that the synths sounded the same to my untrained ear. I liked the control layout of the Rogue better (the wheels, the octave layout) but I liked the MG-1's ring mod and the poly (which sounds more like an air organ than a Hammond). The poly is much more useful than people give it credit for, and not just as a third mono oscillator. Clean all the gunk out and you've got a great synthesizer, probably the most full-featured vintage analog mono you can find under $500. Of course, it's about the only one (besides the CS01 and sometimes an Axxe or Micromoog) you can find in that price range.
I am so glad i dug up this thread. Having just acquired a beautiful MG-1, I am in the mood to discuss it. I have been flummoxed as to why the Rogue is referred to as the "full featured cousin" of the MG-1. So a set of pitch and mod wheels makes a synth full featured?

I also do not understand why no one mentions the waveform and footing locks on the Rogue. You must have the same 2 waveshapes on the same footing as the default. It also lacks a 3rd VCO ( a divide down polyphonic one at that.)

Your statement that the MG-1 does not use all moog parts is contrary to the story of the engineer who helped put the MG-1 together for Realistic/Radioshack. He states the MG1 uses the Moog 3046 VCO and the Moog 3080 VCA. I wonder what the truth is. I know i have seen pics of the PCB and it is stamped with the Moog logo so i dunno. I wonder if anyone knows if the Rogue uses the same digital noise as the MG-1?

I must hand it to Automatic Gainsay. Apart from his awesome demo videos and cool intro songs on said videos, he basically sold me on the MG-1. Its a great synth for an absurd price. Well done sir. For my money, I take the MG-1 everytime, even if it doesn't say Moog on the back panel (it says it in small font on the front panel ;) )

Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:59 pm
by Automatic Gainsay
Neonlights84 wrote:I must hand it to Automatic Gainsay. Apart from his awesome demo videos and cool intro songs on said videos, he basically sold me on the MG-1. Its a great synth for an absurd price. Well done sir. For my money, I take the MG-1 everytime, even if it doesn't say Moog on the back panel (it says it in small font on the front panel ;) )
I am VERY glad you've had a similar experience with it as I have. I didn't buy one for years because everyone spoke so poorly of it. Once I got one, I was very confused... it's an unbelievable synth for the price, and would be a good synth for the price if it went for a hundred and fifty more. it just goes to show you that most people generalize on the generalizations as opposed to digging into the device itself.

Thanks for watching, and I'm glad I could help!

Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:50 pm
by Neonlights84
Automatic Gainsay wrote:
Neonlights84 wrote:I must hand it to Automatic Gainsay. Apart from his awesome demo videos and cool intro songs on said videos, he basically sold me on the MG-1. Its a great synth for an absurd price. Well done sir. For my money, I take the MG-1 everytime, even if it doesn't say Moog on the back panel (it says it in small font on the front panel ;) )
I am VERY glad you've had a similar experience with it as I have. I didn't buy one for years because everyone spoke so poorly of it. Once I got one, I was very confused... it's an unbelievable synth for the price, and would be a good synth for the price if it went for a hundred and fifty more. it just goes to show you that most people generalize on the generalizations as opposed to digging into the device itself.

Thanks for watching, and I'm glad I could help!
No problem! You do not happen to know about the Rogue's noise generator do you? I am kinda curious about this. And does anyone know which came first, the MG-1 or the Rogue?

And seriously, why do people speak so poorly about the MG-1, and yet laud the Rogue when you cant even have different waveshapes on different octaves? Wierd.

Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:03 am
by redchapterjubilee
Neonlights84 wrote:Your statement that the MG-1 does not use all moog parts is contrary to the story of the engineer who helped put the MG-1 together for Realistic/Radioshack. He states the MG1 uses the Moog 3046 VCO and the Moog 3080 VCA. I wonder what the truth is. I know i have seen pics of the PCB and it is stamped with the Moog logo so i dunno. I
Here's where I got my information:
http://machines.hyperreal.org/manufactu ... istory.txt
What it say:
"Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 23:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Paul Schreiber <synth1@airmail.net>
To: inman@interpath.com,
synth-diy@mailhost.bpa.nl
Sender: owner-synth-diy@mailhost.bpa.nl
Subject: Re: Paul's "Moog"

>Paul S. designed the Radio Shack Moog! I'll be damned.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Since this pops up every now and then, and I'm taking a break bagging up
7,620 resistors, here is the "story".

Radio Shack has no engineering. Rather, that falls (er...'fell') under TSD
(Tandy Systems Design). Also, twice a year Radio Shack holds a private version
of COMDEX/CES, just for them! Vendors line up 50 deep and present their wares.
Back then (early '80s) about 40% of gear in a Radio Shack was bought 'outside'.
Most electronics was made in a Korean factory that Tandy owned a majority
share called EnCal (EnCal made all of Pioneer's and Alpine's car stereos
there).

So, during one of these mini-trade shows who is on the presentation list
(which TSD got in advance) but a one 'Dr. D. Luce'. Well, when I saw Mr.
PolyMoog on the list I had to see this. So sure enough here he wanders in
with a hand-made small synth. He demos it. Bernie Appel, the #1 decision maker
(er...the *ONLY* decision maker of what went in the store or not) had this type
of conversation (I am giving not exact, but the general idea. It was 16-17
years ago!)

BA: What the f*** is that piece of s***? (BA enjoyed treating all new
vendors this way. This was his equivalent of "Hello.")
DDL: It's a music synthesizer prototype. [Proceeds on a 3 minute demo. You
had 5 minutes to present. Period!!]
BA: (interested, but certainly not going to show it to the Yankee geek) How
the h**l do you plug it in?
DDL points out the 1/4" jack.
BA: Where in the holy h**l, in my store (they were always referred to as "my
stores") does that thing go? Up my a*s?

See, RS had not a single piece of gear that had 1/4" jacks! All RCA. BA knew
this.

DDL at this point looks like he's gonna puke. He's quivering & sweating like
a w***e in church (sorry, that's another BA expression!)

BA: Play me a tune. [DDL one-fingers a classical thingy.]

BA: That damn thing busted? What's with this 1 finger s**t?
[DDL explains about monophonic blah blah blah.]

BA turns to me.

BA: You know what the h**l he's talking about?
Me: (thinking this is a trick question) Err...yeah.
BA to DDL: We'll look at it. NEXT!!!!

So began the Luce/Schreiber effort. What he had was the boards out of a
Minimoog, no A440 osc, no noise, in a box. So, I got handed that, designed
the MG-1 version (added the organ stuff BECAUSE BA was convinced that typical
RS customers wanted more than 1 note). Added RCA jacks, ring mod do-dad. Then,
had to specify parts that Moog never had to use: cheapo pots. I'll admit it:
CHEAPO. They were ALPS and I think we paid (back then) about 23 cents apiece.

That is because the RS gross profit margin was an unheard of 63% (the
average of ALL the Forture 500 is like 8%) and lastly, I spent about 3 weeks
on just the panel layout and color scheme & wrote the Owner's Manual along
with, oddly enough, Steve Leininger who designed the TRS-80. He played a Vox
in a jazz band and BA wanted his opinion as well.

Luce and I went back & forth about 5 months until they delivered the
"pre-production" units. Moog made them, Tandy supplied most of the parts (we
had a company in Japan that bought parts and resold them to Tandy. One day
I'll tell my funny modem capacitor story.)

So, the story was:

a) Moog presented the original idea to RS
b) They dumped it on me. I had to make it "Radio Shack compliant". Which
meant a re-design. Used the 3046 + Tel Labs tempco for the VCO. More
Electronotes than Moog! Moog ladder filter, 3080 VCA. Prototype had mod
wheel; *PUNT!*. Cost like $3. Get real.
c) Moog built it.
d) Tandy had 18 months exclusive. Moog then made the Rogue which is my
design without the organ/ring mod, wheels back on.
e) No, I didn't get a free MG-1 or a Rogue.
f) No, I didn't get alot of money. At that time I was making about $21,500/yr.

Final note: NO!!! I DID NOT pick that stupid black felt that lays over the
sliders, then turns to tar. That was Luce's deal. But, I DID get Luce to send
me *every* piece of Moog literature at the time: still have it!

Paul Schreiber
Synthesis Technology"