MG-1 VS rogue?

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Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Tue May 18, 2010 3:47 pm

Neonlights84 wrote:Also, what at are the aural and practical differences btw. analog and digital noise?
Someone explained the digital noise employed in the MG-1 somewhere on VSE, but I can't remember where. It's some sort of weird artificial loop, and you can hear it looping on the MG-1. On top of the irritating loop, it's also just bad-sounding noise. I don't know if it should be called "digital noise," as if it were just digitally produced, it'd be loads better. If the Rogue has analog noise (or even more reasonable digitally-generated noise), that's a plus for it.
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Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Post by cgren72 » Wed May 19, 2010 4:11 am

Automatic Gainsay wrote:
Neonlights84 wrote:Also, what at are the aural and practical differences btw. analog and digital noise?
Someone explained the digital noise employed in the MG-1 somewhere on VSE, but I can't remember where. It's some sort of weird artificial loop, and you can hear it looping on the MG-1. On top of the irritating loop, it's also just bad-sounding noise. I don't know if it should be called "digital noise," as if it were just digitally produced, it'd be loads better. If the Rogue has analog noise (or even more reasonable digitally-generated noise), that's a plus for it.

I think that noise is hilarious. it sits there and clicks. I don't think that it is too big of a deal. if you use the noise with anything else, its hardly noticeable. I guess if you just sit there and hit noise blips it might be an issue. The noise might not be the best, but id rather have a bad noise generator and a ring modulator than a good noise generator without a ring modulator.

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Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Wed May 19, 2010 5:15 am

cgren72 wrote:
Automatic Gainsay wrote:
Neonlights84 wrote:Also, what at are the aural and practical differences btw. analog and digital noise?
Someone explained the digital noise employed in the MG-1 somewhere on VSE, but I can't remember where. It's some sort of weird artificial loop, and you can hear it looping on the MG-1. On top of the irritating loop, it's also just bad-sounding noise. I don't know if it should be called "digital noise," as if it were just digitally produced, it'd be loads better. If the Rogue has analog noise (or even more reasonable digitally-generated noise), that's a plus for it.

I think that noise is hilarious. it sits there and clicks. I don't think that it is too big of a deal. if you use the noise with anything else, its hardly noticeable. I guess if you just sit there and hit noise blips it might be an issue. The noise might not be the best, but id rather have a bad noise generator and a ring modulator than a good noise generator without a ring modulator.
You don't have to tell me. I'd take an MG-1 over a Prodigy, let alone a Rogue. I'm just saying that the noise generator sucks hole. : )
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Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Post by Scories » Fri May 21, 2010 11:27 pm

Hi. I promissed to send my first impressions on the MG-1.
It's a nice little synth, but not a keeper for me.

Overall, I found it had:
A limited octave range
A narrow sweet spot on the filter & res
A flat-sounding LFO section


It's quite flexible but I found it hard to escape from its sound (that I would strangely qualify as 'woody'). AG would not approuve, but I've been able to get a wider variety of tones with much less features on my SH-101. The ring mod could bring some interesting 'different tones', but I would rather use the µ-waveXT for those types of sounds (with many more options). Anyway, I did not managed to get further of those sweet Minimoog-like tones I got from my SH-1000.

I don't want to sound like I'm bashing the MG-1. I know I could have got many very nice sounds out of it, but I generally keep synth that has a super wide sweet spot and a distinctive tone. And the MG-1 don't have a tone I'm craving for. I don't know if I had a bad model, but I did not kept it. At the end of the day, I lost 20$, but at least, I've tried an other real analog classic synth. And it convinced me to go for a SEM module instead.

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Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Thu May 27, 2010 7:37 am

Scories wrote: AG would not approuve, but I've been able to get a wider variety of tones with much less features on my SH-101.
I have to admit that I'm quite surprised by your post in some ways, and not at all surprised in others. If the thing doesn't sound like what you want, then it is not the right synth... and that's the most important thing. There are a lot of synths people like which are quite versatile which I simply don't like the sound of, so I can dig that completely.

However, I do have to fuss over some points:

1. If you can get a wider variety of tones out of a single osc synth without a ring mod (the ring mod is okay for effects, but it's fantastic for subtle alterations of timbre on the MG-1), without three layers of oscillators, and without oscillator sync... then something magical is happening with that SH-101. :wink:

2. Your filter sweet spot issue might be a calibration issue. Or not!

3. What does "flat sounding LFO" mean?

4. I found some Minimoogesque sounds on my MG-1, but never once found anything remotely Minimoogesque on my SH-1000!

You'll get no argument from me about the octave range. Also, I'm surprised you didn't mention the horrible envelope implementation. I really despised it.
The MG-1 isn't my favorite synth, by far. I found that the only reason I had one was because it was a great portable analog synth for live performance, and covered a lot of bases. When I wasn't performing or practicing for performance, I never used it. As I sold mine, it really wasn't a keeper for me, either!
But for the money, the thing is frickin' incredible.
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Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Post by Scories » Thu May 27, 2010 5:28 pm

Maybe I should have just wrote that the SH-1000 has a real 70's vibe that I cannot find in the MG-1. Otherwise, you know the Mini more than me.

About the flat-sounding LFO, I guess it has something to do with the filter. If the filter doesn't react in a lively way, the lfo modulation will not make it sound lively. Too bad because you are right about the versatility of the osc section. It could have been a good synth for me, but I did not fell in love with the tone. And yes, the enveloppe section is not so great. But again, I would have lived with it if I would have fell in love with the tone.

Hint: The LFO modulated by noise on the sh-101 is swell and it helps me to produce unusual analog tone when applied to the filter, the pitch or the PWM. In my opinion, it's as valuable as a ringmod, even more IMO.

Thanks for the reply! :)

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Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Post by Neonlights84 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:53 pm

Scories wrote:Maybe I should have just wrote that the SH-1000 has a real 70's vibe that I cannot find in the MG-1. Otherwise, you know the Mini more than me.

About the flat-sounding LFO, I guess it has something to do with the filter. If the filter doesn't react in a lively way, the lfo modulation will not make it sound lively. Too bad because you are right about the versatility of the osc section. It could have been a good synth for me, but I did not fell in love with the tone. And yes, the enveloppe section is not so great. But again, I would have lived with it if I would have fell in love with the tone.

Hint: The LFO modulated by noise on the sh-101 is swell and it helps me to produce unusual analog tone when applied to the filter, the pitch or the PWM. In my opinion, it's as valuable as a ringmod, even more IMO.

Thanks for the reply! :)
I can see what you mean in some cases, and I disagree in others. I agree that at times the MG-1 can sound "woody," but I am not so sure that is a bad thing. The Pro-One is often described in similar terms, and I would love to have one. What i really like about the MG-1 is the sawtooth has some serious grit and bite to it. The LP's saw is a little more rounded off than i would like, but the unfiltered saw on the MG-1 is vintage and cutting.


Also, the lack of PWM (one of my favorite synth sounds) puts it behind the sh-101 if you like that sound. So i get you there. However, i think the mg-1 can easily sound 70's, and it can do a fair minimoog thanks to the third osc (with a dedicated LFO!).

Speaking of the LFO, i do not agree it is flat, or whatever. I think the filter modulation is plenty lively. My LFO complaint is that it doesn't have a very high frequency ceiling. It doesn't go nearly as fast as my LP's, which produces all sorts of cool timbers. Overall, for 500 bucks, the MG1 smokes anything that is proffered as a competitor. Run the thing though some effects, and you'll have people wide-eyed.
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Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Post by Scories » Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:36 pm

Thanks for your comments Neonlight. It's a good thing that some people like synths that other people don't. In other words, variety equals beauty. I'd be curious to try out some other synths like the SH-2 and the Moog Source to see how do they fit in my sonic preferences, but that's an other topic...

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Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Post by OriginalJambo » Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:09 am

Neonlights84 wrote:It doesn't go nearly as fast as my LP's, which produces all sorts of cool timbers.
I'm pretty sure the LP's LFO is digitally-generated. It is then brought into the analogue domain so it can interact with the signal path. This is probably one of the reasons the range is rather generous.

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Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Post by druzz » Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:26 am

OriginalJambo wrote:
Neonlights84 wrote:It doesn't go nearly as fast as my LP's, which produces all sorts of cool timbers.
I'm pretty sure the LP's LFO is digitally-generated. It is then brought into the analogue domain so it can interact with the signal path. This is probably one of the reasons the range is rather generous.
analog lfo's can be really fast as on the CS-5 . i dont think the analogness of LFO'S limit their speed . an lfo is an oscillator and analog oscillators can go very high in the audio range . otherwise analog synth could not produce sounds.
if they go too high they are not LOW frequency oscillators anymore. LFO's go slow because the synth designers decided that would be their range .

but personally i love LFO's that can go very fast :2cool:

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Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Post by Neonlights84 » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:13 am

I really wish someone could arrange and produce a MG-1 vs Rogue youtube video. That would be really cool.
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Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Post by bochelli » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:29 am

This topic is rather good, its the 3rd ive replied to, the whole point of VS!, i own both of these synths, the Rogue is in its shipping box with all papers,manuals,ect and it can stay there,but the MG-1 well thats something else, i paid £100 for this chap a couple of years ago and i love it, to me its a cut down Moog Liberation on the outside the MG-1 looks rather nice and it sounds nice, and if you look at another thread ive replied to i say not EVERYONE knows this was made by moog,i know folks who dont know what a synth is,its the yes simple organ and cheapo ring mod that brings this tiny synth to life, this thread is also good as its nice to talk about the smaller synths for a change,the big poly synths are great that will never change but as someone has said these synths for the moment are within reason not too much on your wallet, but for how long? .
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Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Post by Neonlights84 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:41 pm

I asked earlier in this thread if the Rogue also had digital noise. I did some research and I wanted everyone to let you guys know what I found. I did some digging through the Rogue service manual, and it states that the noise is generated by IC-5837. Some Googling lead me to the MM5837N noise generator, which is a digital noise generator. So yes, the Rogue has digital noise.

Now you may be asking, "is this the same noise generator that is used in the MG-1?" Good question. For the answer, I consulted the MG-1's service manual. In said manual, the noise generator is described thusly: "Noise is generated by a psuedo random digital noise generator U1016. U1016 produces a varying digital pulse stream which has a frequency spectrum of white noise over the audio range. This white noise output is fed through a 3 dB/octave filter to produce a pink noise." At first glance, it appears as if this U1016 is a different component. But U1016 is merely a manual designator that is used to help you find it in the component list. I went to the back, and looked in the U1016 box and found....the MM5837N integrated circuit. So both the Rogue and the MG-1 both feature the same crappy digital noise source. Mystery solved.

I can finally get some sleep! :lol:
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Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Post by bochelli » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:25 pm

Ive noticed here in England and in the USA this past 2 months , quite a few MG1s have been on ebay and online elsewhere, is it really simple as that, its because its a cheap way to get a Moog sound? or because its becoming one of the few you can get nowadays ? time to get the metric scales out i think and weigh all this up.
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Re: MG-1 VS rogue?

Post by redchapterjubilee » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:32 pm

Honestly, I think it's because it's the most readily available in the States and usually the only vintage mono synth trading below $500, though I've seen prices over $500 too.
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