V synth vs V synth GT

A forum for comparing two or more synths against each other. Also known as "versus" threads.
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balma
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V synth vs V synth GT

Post by balma » Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:25 pm

what's up with the "GT" version??? wich are the improvements, if there is any? What I see different from mine, is that there are no dedicated knobs for the two oscillators on the GT.

AP Synthesis????
I can't deny the GT design is simple beautiful. It's an incredible design, so handsome, but seems more commercial.

Anyone that has used both here?

thanks
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Re: V synth vs V synth GT

Post by OriginalJambo » Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:45 am

Mainly AP synthesis and that fact that it's actually TWO V-Synth engines in one, meaning you can layer patches. It also has the Vocal Designer (VC-2) card built-in, but is not compatible with the D-50 card (VC-1). I think it can run the VC-2 as well as the standard V-Synth sound engines simultaneously and without a reboot, but don't quote me on that.

The colour screen is quite nifty too.
Last edited by OriginalJambo on Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: V synth vs V synth GT

Post by Joey » Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:27 pm

anyone have any samples of the AP synthesis in action?
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Re: V synth vs V synth GT

Post by balma » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:52 pm

Yea that colourful screen is trippy....

BTW, just to mention: touchscreen, is one of the most useful interfaces ever. They are not so expensive! You can get it on a palm, on a nintendo, tons of modern synths would be so easier to manipulate with this feature.

how much instruments can you have into one patch on the GT???? The two oscillators arquitecture of the V synth classic, is one of its biggest limitations.

Also, I wonder if the Multitimbre is improved on the GT, because V synth's multitimbre... ups...wait a moment!....does V synth has multitimbre.....? je je
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Re: V synth vs V synth GT

Post by cornutt » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:59 am

balma wrote:Yea that colourful screen is trippy....

Also, I wonder if the Multitimbre is improved on the GT, because V synth's multitimbre... ups...wait a moment!....does V synth has multitimbre.....? je je
Well, it does, but... because DSPs are allocated dynamically depending on what patch is loaded, you don't know how many voices you have available until you load a patch and try it. Given multiple patches loaded in a multitimbral configuration, knowing how many voices are available gets very complicated.

Also, unlike the JD-800, there is no way to shift the panel controls to a different part -- they can access part 1 only. And IIRC, part 1's effects settings apply to all parts.
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Re: V synth vs V synth GT

Post by balma » Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:23 pm

Problem with V synth's multitimbre is that you cannot play patches assigned to MIDI channels from 2 to 16.

It's unbelievable to find a modern VA flag syntth with such huge limitation. Spent several days trying to deal with this problem when I purchased it.

You must:

1. Layer them. Assign those channels to MIDI 1, and then, you will able to layer them.

2. Use an external MIDI device to play channels from 2 to 16. You must use an external sequencer to get the best of the V sytnh.

3. Each V synth's patch, can have 16 instruments of 2 voices each one. You can divide the keyboard on 16 parts using the KEYZONE function.

So, I started a 2-3 months patch programming process, in order to use my V synth a*s much as I could in my set up.

Take a a couple of patches, created a 16 zone.

keyzone 1: C-2. kick
keyzone 2: C#-2 hi hat
keyzone 3: D-2 snare
keyzone 4: D#-2 crash
keyzone 5: E-2 conga
keyzone 6: F-2 tom
keyzone 7: F#-2 perc1
keyzone 8: G-2 perc2
keyzone 9: G#-2 sfx
keyzone 10: A-2 sfx voice
keyzone 11: A#-2 sfx reverse
keyzone 12: B-2 tambourine
keyzone 13: C-1 to B-1 sfx
keyzone 14: C0 to B1 bass
keyzone 15: C2 to B3 synth lead 1 (or a pad, or a voice)
keyzone 16: C4 to C8 synth lead 2 main performance patch


I programmed 16 different patches in this way. This takes a lot of time and patience. I mean, I won't follow exactly this methodology of sound assignation for each patch on each keyzone, but I do use exactly the same keyzone mapping, for all the 512 patches.

Then, I copy pasted all these same keyzone programming to all thew 512 locations on the V synth.

And started to assign different patches to each keyzone.

This took me almost 6 months of hard work. I reprogrammed completely the V synth in this way, to obtain the best of this awesome machine.

Results?

I have a mini multitimbre on each patch. 16 voices per patch. And with a sequencer, I have 256 sounds ready to be triggered, with an external 16 track sequencer manipulating the V synth.


I would love to hear what V- synth's users think about this methodology of work.

V synth's Multitimbre is prettty limitated but not impossible to use. If you dedicate a lot of your time reconstructing V synth's architecture, this synth can be your best companion.

this is the closest approach to have a multitimbre on the V synth. I also complain about the arppegio, you can use only on arppegio at the time.

Solution??

Get a command station. It can transmit 16 arppegios at the same time. It has 100 user arppegios, and with 4 ROMS, you'll have "only" 1000 arppegios to play..... nice.

Tweaks: you must hold shift, and choose the keyzone, to affect it with the knobs. If you are positioned on keyzone 15, other zones won't be affected by knob modulations. c**p.

I wonder how do you deal with these situations on the GT. I realize there are not too much GT users on this forum.

GT is a little bit expensive IMO. I have been thinking on upgrading to GT, but after 2-3 years of hard work, makes me sad to get rid of my Vsynth. I have thousands of hours invested on it.....
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Re: V synth vs V synth GT

Post by Hybrid88 » Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:44 pm

Balma, sounds like you've gotten about as deep with MIDI as the original V allows - not sure if this is upgraded on the GT but I don't think so.

Ok, I'll ad my thoughts on this discussion now if I may. :wink:

I am a proud owner of an original V-Synth and have it set up as the center-piece of my electronic music studio. It's a fantastic piece of equipment to use and is hands down my favourite modern synth. I particularly like the user interface and find it one of, if not *the* best interfaces in relation to how little time you can invest to achieve deep results.

I have also demo'd the GT version in a music shop and *instantly* knew I didn't want to upgrade. Not just the price difference which to be honest I could not justify with my needs/income. But more the difference in the user interface - the astounding simplicity that impressed me so much from the original is just not there. The new "Dual" architecture just feels clumsily implemented, it takes about 5x as long to program a basic patch on the GT verses the original - the flipside being of course greater flexibility, but for me, thats the ground my software covers. I don't think anyone would argue that feature-wise, even the GT is pretty lame compared to NI's Reaktor 5 for example. Also, I found the actual physical appearance/interface to similarly look quite cluttered and disorganised compared to the original. The all important synthesis knobs are cut down in number (10 in all missing from the original), so this means more menu diving for even basic sound programming. It is cool that the vocoder and AP synthesis is now part of the architecture but to me these features aren't what attracted me to the original V in the first place, not to mention the additional space needed on the front panel to fit these in - all makes it look too crowded where it doesn't need to be (modes/arcitecture) and relatively sparse where I would like to see it (Knob/Slider programming interfaces).

I really think It'd only be worth it for live use, as a studio tool the original V is much more nicely implemented, cheaper and definately more instantaneously gratifying to use as a general purpose synthesiser - and that is what appeals to me, programming sounds as opposed to performing live.

Cheers. :wink:

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Re: V synth vs V synth GT

Post by balma » Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:37 pm

Hybrid88 wrote: The all important synthesis knobs are cut down in number (10 in all missing from the original), so this means more menu diving for even basic sound programming.
Yeah that's one of my biggest concerns. My biggest complain about the V synth is precisely multitimbre, limitations of 2 oscillators/samples per patch and sequencing.

I mean V synth will be something out of htis world with a linear sequencer included, a decent menu dedicated to create a multitimbre performance, and more poly. But it seems that Roland didn't count with this....

So I will keep the classic one. And I bet a lot of people didn't upgrade precisely because GT does not satisfy real needs
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Re: V synth vs V synth GT

Post by code green » Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:41 am

interesting back and forth...so the ap synthesis didn't put anyone over the edge with the gt then, i'm taking it?

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Re: V synth vs V synth GT

Post by Hybrid88 » Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:14 pm

code green wrote:interesting back and forth...so the ap synthesis didn't put anyone over the edge with the gt then, i'm taking it?
No, Why? Unless you must have the latest of everything I see no reason for it, I don't see the extra features as adding much for my needs. At least look at it from a cost perspective, Original Vs Gt - geez you can probably even get a Jupiter-6 with the difference between them. No question in my mind :lol:

V-Synth original will be, in my opinion, one day popularly considered to be one of the greatest classic machines made by Roland, think Jupiter-8 of the 21st Century. The secondhand prices now are a mockery to this phenomenal synth, mark my words this will be worth something in the future, give it time ;)

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Re: V synth vs V synth GT

Post by balma » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:02 pm

yeah, it's a creative instrument and easy to use. One of the few DEEP synths that allows you to put down your ideas very fast. Most of the synths must sacrificy a large amount of features in order to express your ideas faster.
v synth still as a deep professional synth, with a truly simplified user interface.
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Re: V synth vs V synth GT

Post by trevordutton » Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:21 pm

Hey,
Nice thread gentlemen. I own and love my V synth (original version 2) and have wondered whether this upgrade is worth the price difference as well. My main reason for wanting to upgrade, however, would be to improve the sound quality of the PCM oscillators. Anyone happen to know if the resolution is higher for the GT samples?

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Re: V synth vs V synth GT

Post by Joey » Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:04 am

Can anyone post any sound examples of AP synthesis?
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Re: V synth vs V synth GT

Post by balma » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:53 pm

Is weird, but nobody talks about the GT on forums.....I'm also curious about the AP synthesis.

GT tried to be the upgrade of the V synth. but it seems that a lot of V synth classic owners are happy with the V synth!!!!!!!

That is the best probe of the long lasting concept of the Vsynth..... With a new version, the classic V synth hasn't been sent to the back patio.... stills giving its kicks with happy owners.
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Re: V synth vs V synth GT

Post by Hybrid88 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:16 am

balma wrote:Is weird, but nobody talks about the GT on forums.....I'm also curious about the AP synthesis.

GT tried to be the upgrade of the V synth. but it seems that a lot of V synth classic owners are happy with the V synth!!!!!!!

That is the best probe of the long lasting concept of the Vsynth..... With a new version, the classic V synth hasn't been sent to the back patio.... stills giving its kicks with happy owners.
Absolutely, and you know why? Because the GT has lost the intuitiveness and ease of use that makes the original V so great to use. The original V-Synth has always amazed me in that respect in that it can have deep possibilities but still be easy to program. The whole "dual" architecture of the GT destroys this and makes simple jobs much more difficult.

...Plus the green colour screen makes me want to puke :D

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