Your opinion Source Vs. Little Phatty

A forum for comparing two or more synths against each other. Also known as "versus" threads.
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Your opinion Source Vs. Little Phatty

Post by mis psiquicios y yo » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:33 am

I search for this topic, didn't find it. I have a moog source, in good condition, the second oscillator needs to be calibrated in every octave, but well, for now I love the sound with just one oscillator.

Now, I been thinking I need more memory locations, 16 are not enough; I don't want to be worried if the thing is going to function tomorrow or not, I want something that endures. Thought of the Little Phatty II.

The thing I am pretty sure is that I want a simple analog monosynth, Voyagers are too expensive.

So what would be your opinion on that?
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Re: Your opinion Source Vs. Little Phatty

Post by mis psiquicios y yo » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:57 am

Found the Topic on synth shoot outs, I posted there h**l! but well, I may welcome more opinions.
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Re: Your opinion Source Vs. Little Phatty

Post by redchapterjubilee » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:04 pm

I had a Source for several years and then a LP Stage 1 for the past year. The Source developed the Crazy Source Syndrome and tossed all of its presets on me and developed a strangeness to it. We fixed the issue (it's an electrical connection inside that alters voltage to the computer) but the synth never sounded the same to me. The envelopes were weird and oscillator 2 didn't track exactly right (though not as bad as yours). So I sent it on its way and bought a Little Phatty used. It had a bad oscillator 2 as well and I eventually got another one that works right.

They are definitely siblings. You can tell it when you sweep that filter. But there are plenty of differences between the two:
1. Little Phatty has more knobs than the Source. That's not really a big deal because I found the Source easier to program. Huh? Yes indeed. Touch a button and spin that big pot. Every function was right there. Touch button once, spin the knob. The LP you have to scroll through settings sometimes before you get to what you want, then you can turn one of those smaller knobs. S&H was right there and easy to get to quick. Same with the arp. I also liked to alter a sound and have the big knob spinning then hit that preset's number again and it would instantly snap back to the original sound. That was kinda fun. My biggest gripe with menu diving is having to menu dive to tune the LP. The Source you just reach over the back and tune away.
2. 16 presets versus 100. Well, that seemed like a bother sometimes, but even with the LP I probably use about the same number of presets and then alter them.
3. MIDI versus CV. Sure, you can buy a converter but it is way dandy to have such easy access to changing out the software on the LP. And if I need to use it as a MIDI controller I can. Lots more MIDI sequencers around for cheap than CV sequencers.
4. The LP is much more stable than the Source. The membrane panels go out and the Crazy Source Syndrome will stop it dead. Both are about the same for tuning, but the software-driven calibration is awesome. Plus if your new Moog goes down you can send it to Amos and the gang in Asheville and get it fixed. With the Moog it is a crapshoot with whatever tech you can manage to find.
5. Noise. I do miss a dedicated noise generator on the LP. Yeah, I've got one as a modulator but not as a sound source. I miss that. But the LP does have filter audio input and the Source doesn't.
6. The sound. OK, here's where I have to give one to Automatic Gainsay. The vintage synthesizer has better basic tone to me. Better is subjective, and it's not like the LP sucks or anything because it is a healthy beast of a synth. But the Source had a certain immediate bigness to it that the LP only shares maybe 95% of. In the low-end I think both Moogs are near identical. In the upper end though...the Source had a bigger sizzle on top than the LP. That said, I can make much more complex sounds with the LP than I could with the Source. I can modulate waveforms, modulate oscillator sync, change filter poles, filter feedback, using the oscillator to modulate the filter, etc.

That said, I struggle with the LP whereas I didn't with the Source. I just don't feel it's a synth for just tweaking. It feels like more of a performance synth for calling up presets. Sure, the Source had presets too but the presets were limited AND everything was laid out. It's mostly in my head, the kinda stuff that spending too much time on VSE and not enough time actually playing your synths will do to you.
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Re: Your opinion Source Vs. Little Phatty

Post by mis psiquicios y yo » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:28 pm

Hey redchapterjubilee, thanks for your very complete answer :D . Your comparison of the sound is very interesting, from what I understood you like more the basic sound of the Source than the LP, although with the last you can make more complex sounds.

It is interesting that you didn't put a single argument on the sole Vintage statement, that is one of the things that make me humble.

I'll let you know my choice. Are you interested on a Moog Source? :lol:
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Re: Your opinion Source Vs. Little Phatty

Post by redchapterjubilee » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:44 pm

Oh I would love to have another Source...but they are difficult to repair. We learned that the hard way. The keyboard is difficult to extract to get inside to the guts of the synth.

If I had the option, with money not being an object, of having one or the other I'd take the Source, but only if it has been gone through by a reputable tech who's gonna fix the Crazy Source issue and calibrate it. But trust me, the Little Phatty isn't really just a consolation prize. They synths are very similar in tone, especially on the bass side.
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Re: Your opinion Source Vs. Little Phatty

Post by OriginalJambo » Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:02 am

Yeah, I'd agree that the Little Phatty doesn't seem to sound as bright as many of the the older Moogs. Not necessarily a bad thing, just something to be aware of.

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Re: Your opinion Source Vs. Little Phatty

Post by Neonlights84 » Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:18 am

OriginalJambo wrote:Yeah, I'd agree that the Little Phatty doesn't seem to sound as bright as many of the the older Moogs. Not necessarily a bad thing, just something to be aware of.

I have never owned a Source, but I have played one, and I would have to agree in general. I find the Phatty to be a little more rounded off sounding compared to older Moogs. Here is how i looks at the oscillators.

Triangle: Damn near identical to the Minimoog triangle according to oscilloscope testing, simply great.
Saw: Not as a brash and cutting as others.
Square: Very nice, but a little rounder than others.
PWM: Amazing, considering only the Source features this as well.

Of all the Moog comparisons, i think this is the closest contest. They are very nearly the same synth in terms of sound. They each have different things the other doesn't, but for the money and reliability, I would have to side with the Phatty. I think it is a great synth, and I can't wait until they cease production and everyone stops just assuming its going to be there for them.
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Re: Your opinion Source Vs. Little Phatty

Post by redchapterjubilee » Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:35 am

Neonlights84 wrote:for the money and reliability, I would have to side with the Phatty. I think it is a great synth, and I can't wait until they cease production and everyone stops just assuming its going to be there for them.
It's weird. All the time that I had the Source and it was sick I thought long and hard about replacing it with a Little Phatty because it seemed to me that the two were definitely kindred spirits. One was obviously going to be more reliable than the other, which is why ultimately I'm rolling with the LP instead of the Source. Now that I've got the LP I have a really hard time getting excited about it. When i play it and program it the sound is there 100%. I think often about how it just doesn't seem as "creative" to me, but then when i sit down and work with it I enjoy it so much. I don't know many people who are excited about the Little Phatty. All the excitement seems to point backwards to the vintage Moogs. It's all in my head.
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Re: Your opinion Source Vs. Little Phatty

Post by Neonlights84 » Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:48 am

redchapterjubilee wrote:
Neonlights84 wrote:for the money and reliability, I would have to side with the Phatty. I think it is a great synth, and I can't wait until they cease production and everyone stops just assuming its going to be there for them.
It's weird. All the time that I had the Source and it was sick I thought long and hard about replacing it with a Little Phatty because it seemed to me that the two were definitely kindred spirits. One was obviously going to be more reliable than the other, which is why ultimately I'm rolling with the LP instead of the Source. Now that I've got the LP I have a really hard time getting excited about it. When i play it and program it the sound is there 100%. I think often about how it just doesn't seem as "creative" to me, but then when i sit down and work with it I enjoy it so much. I don't know many people who are excited about the Little Phatty. All the excitement seems to point backwards to the vintage Moogs. It's all in my head.
No, this is weird. I often feel the same way, and I do think it is all mental. You get all ramped up anytime to belly up to a vintage synth; a breathless approach followed by a timid touch. I often cool on the LP, but then i play it and im like "wow, that is great, I am a damned idiot." This happened just tonight as a matter of fact. I was lusting about the Source and watching Source vidz, so then I was determined to go recreate some of these sounds. I started from the calibrate patch, turned a few knobs, closed my eyes, and shablam, i was playing a Source.

I reiterate my stance; this a great synth, soon to be a classic, and I am not going to let myself tell myself otherwise. The Source is obviously already a classic, as if i had to tell you that.
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Re: Your opinion Source Vs. Little Phatty

Post by stikygum » Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:26 am

The interface of the LP is fantastic. Love it. I think the sound of both are extremely comparable. They sound very close. Some people could possibly tell you different. I noticed a bigger difference with the Voyagers sound. I thought the Osc on it sounded smoother than the LP or Source. The LP is a very nice synth. Now the LP has CV and an Arp on it. If I were choosing between these, I'd go LP. It has more of what I like in features. The Source is great and I feel exactly the same about the top end. The higher pitches had more sparkle and harmonics. That was the only small difference I noticed in sound. Enough to sway me from the LP, I don't think so.

One more point goes to the fact that getting an LP would also help support the company we love by buying something they produce still. I would still probably go with a Minimoog over the Voyager in sound so that fact doesn't always get me, but the Voyager key has a lot going for it.
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Re: Your opinion Source Vs. Little Phatty

Post by mis psiquicios y yo » Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:07 pm

Ok, thank you all for your very complete answers. I think I've made uo my mind, so, you might find my Source on ebay soon. Long live the LP.
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Re: Your opinion Source Vs. Little Phatty

Post by retrofreak » Wed May 12, 2010 8:52 am

I've owned both and even though I prefer the rawness of the older Moogs I've got to give this one to the Phatty.

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Re: Your opinion Source Vs. Little Phatty

Post by Kent » Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:53 pm

I'm a bit late to this one.

There is a decent LP v. Source comparison thread, with sound files, over on the Moog Music Forum. A member there was intrigued by the idea of replacing his Source and went about replicating the majority of his presets exactly on the LP. Obviously, there are some architectural differences within the synths, but it makes for an interesting read.
Moog LP v. The Source

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Re: Your opinion Source Vs. Little Phatty

Post by mis psiquicios y yo » Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:25 pm

Kent wrote:I'm a bit late to this one.

There is a decent LP v. Source comparison thread, with sound files, over on the Moog Music Forum. A member there was intrigued by the idea of replacing his Source and went about replicating the majority of his presets exactly on the LP. Obviously, there are some architectural differences within the synths, but it makes for an interesting read.
Moog LP v. The Source

Thank you kent, I'm going to read that.
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