MiniBrute vs CS-10/15

A forum for comparing two or more synths against each other. Also known as "versus" threads.
Hair
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 402
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:31 pm
Location: Edison, NJ
Contact:

MiniBrute vs CS-10/15

Post by Hair » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:36 pm

I know not many have played the MiniBrute yet, but hoping to catch AG's attention.

The Arturia seems to sound modern and thick, the Yamahas seem to sound.. "old" and interestingly wacky. All three are close enough in price to compare.

For someone with the Moog style of "phatness" covered, does one jump out over the others as a "character" monosynth? Let's assume the MIDI/CV advantage the MiniBrute has isn't an issue (Yamahas being V/Hz right?)

Fwiw, the music I try to make tends to be big ol' house jams that sound like Daft Punk playing video games with Bernie Worrell, but I figure lots of people might be interested in this.

User avatar
nathanscribe
VSE Review Contributor
VSE Review Contributor
Posts: 2889
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:03 pm
Location: The right side of the Pennines
Contact:

Re: MiniBrute vs CS-10/15

Post by nathanscribe » Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:43 pm

Can't comment on the others, but I've had a few of the CS range and they're definitely different to the more common "Moogy" stuff that everyone seems to go mad for. The multimode filter is a big part of that - the lack of self-oscillation is not, and never was, anything to complain about IMO. The general tone is as bitey as you could want, and with the CS15 you get the benefit of two oscs, two filters, and two VCAs, as well as two envelopes. There are limitations on the routing - oscs/noise are pre-patched to particular filter paths (though levels are variable), filters are parallel, modulation is switched at destination, with different choices on each switch - and really the biggest complaint I had about the 15 was the single LFO, though it does go nice and fast if you want it. Overall though the CS models all sound good - it's a matter of what options you want (availability and cost notwithstanding) as to which you choose. I think a multimode filter makes a very good complement to a Moog-style lowpass.

I'd hazard a guess that the Minibrute will bring similar flavours to the table, albeit with its own dash of something else - and of course you know it's a fixed price with a warranty and you can just order one with no hassle.

User avatar
Automatic Gainsay
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 3962
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:22 am
Real name: Marc Doty
Gear: Minimoog, 2600, CS-15, CS-50, MiniBrute, MicroBrute, S2, Korg MS-20 Mini, 3 Volcas, Pro 2, Leipzig, Pianet T, Wurli 7300, Wurli 145-A, ASR-10, e6400.
Band: Godfrey's Cordial
Location: Tacoma
Contact:

Re: MiniBrute vs CS-10/15

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:25 am

There are the interesting oscillator options on the MiniBrute to think of. Also, the MiniBrute has a self-oscillating filter, and the oppressive grind of the BRUTE FACTOR.
That being said, the CS-15 has two oscillators, and is essentially two-synths-in-one.

If you're looking for a more modern/MS-20 (but better)-like sound, I'd say MiniBrute.
If you're looking for a lovely unique and super-powerful vintage sound, I'd say CS-15.

CS-10... well, they're good.
‎"I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." -Charles Babbage
"Unity and Mediocrity are forever in bed together." -Zane W.
http://www.youtube.com/automaticgainsay

volumetrik
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 278
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:00 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: MiniBrute vs CS-10/15

Post by volumetrik » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:48 pm

I've never played the CS-10/15 but they seem like the most boring plain synths ever.

User avatar
nathanscribe
VSE Review Contributor
VSE Review Contributor
Posts: 2889
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:03 pm
Location: The right side of the Pennines
Contact:

Re: MiniBrute vs CS-10/15

Post by nathanscribe » Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:57 pm

volumetrik wrote:I've never played the CS-10/15 but they seem like the most boring plain synths ever.
Image

User avatar
Psy_Free
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:36 pm
Gear: Synths 'n' stuff.
Band: Klangzeit
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: MiniBrute vs CS-10/15

Post by Psy_Free » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:28 pm

volumetrik wrote:I've never played the CS-10/15 but they seem like the most boring plain synths ever.
A great way to determine how good a synth is, to not play it. I must try that technique before my next synth purchase :mock:
"Any noise is good. For what is a different matter"
Bandcamp 1
Bandcamp 2
Soundcloud

User avatar
thosquanta
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:00 pm
Gear: korg ds-10, ex-800, ms-2000; dotcom porta-22, nord micro modular, roland alpha juno-1, jx-3p, mc505; akai s2000, emu morpheus, red sounds darkstar
Band: thosquanta
Location: minneapolis
Contact:

Re: MiniBrute vs CS-10/15

Post by thosquanta » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:57 pm

not playing a synth first is what led me to the morpheus, a great sounding synth that just sits there in my studio.

volumetrik
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 278
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:00 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: MiniBrute vs CS-10/15

Post by volumetrik » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:40 pm

nathanscribe you're a bit mental lately

just because I said they seem like that doesn't mean they actually are.

User avatar
Solderman
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
Posts: 1799
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:43 pm

Re: MiniBrute vs CS-10/15

Post by Solderman » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:55 am

What's all this about the CS-15 filter being unable to self-oscillate? Patch the Headphone Out or Low Out to Audio In, and adjust Ext In. Use Highpass filter at VCF1. Works fine. What annoys me about the CS-15 is you cannot adjust Filter key tracking. That might have been fine if tracking was set at 1:1, but it's about a half-step under multiplied by each octave up.
volumetrik wrote:I've never played the CS-10/15 but they seem like the most boring plain synths ever.
Now why the f**k can't all those sniper bidders on ebay and retards on youtube think that about the synths I STILL want? I will say that it takes me a while to coax a good sound out of my CS-15. I modded it to serialize the channels to get 4 pole sounds for VCO mix plus VCO1 again post VCf2 to thicken it up.
I am no longer in pursuit of vintage synths. The generally absurd inflation from demand versus practical use and maintenance costs is no longer viable. The internet has suffocated and vanquished yet another wonderful hobby. Too bad.
--Solderman no more.

User avatar
nathanscribe
VSE Review Contributor
VSE Review Contributor
Posts: 2889
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:03 pm
Location: The right side of the Pennines
Contact:

Re: MiniBrute vs CS-10/15

Post by nathanscribe » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:20 am

volumetrik wrote:nathanscribe you're a bit mental lately
:lol:
just because I said they seem like that doesn't mean they actually are.
With all due respect, your statement came across as a bit of a troll or a 'senior moment'. My tolerance of pointlessness has diminished somewhat in the last few years. What have I learned? Don't go into teaching...

Anyway, the CS monos are not boring at all - though of course that's a matter of preference and opinion. It used to be that most complaints about the CS series resulted from people wanting everything to sound like a Moog, but they have a distinctive and (I think) interesting sound.

Solderman: I hear you on tracking. As for the filter resonance, I suppose that method would have other effects that might be undesirable depending on the situation, and might not be possible depending what you require from your sound - doesn't the external input over-ride noise, for example? Without the patching, though, the filters don't self-oscillate, which is what I meant.

User avatar
Solderman
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
Posts: 1799
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:43 pm

Re: MiniBrute vs CS-10/15

Post by Solderman » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:45 pm

nathanscribe wrote:...other effects that might be undesirable depending on the situation, and might not be possible depending what you require from your sound - doesn't the external input over-ride noise, for example?
Yup, no noise that way. Only works with HP filter also, as mentioned. Seems to be more ideal for the serial channel mod, which also calls for moving the Ext input to VCF2, so it seems to stabilize self-oscillation all the way down to sub-audio with that feedback trick.

I looked into modding filter key-tracking, but it looks like the VCF chip needs a voltage at that input just to operate at all, so it would require a bit more engineering than I would want to attempt. Portamento from the CV inputs would also have been nice. Maybe some of the CS30 features like VCO FM and LFO waveform selection per destination too. Oh well.
I am no longer in pursuit of vintage synths. The generally absurd inflation from demand versus practical use and maintenance costs is no longer viable. The internet has suffocated and vanquished yet another wonderful hobby. Too bad.
--Solderman no more.

User avatar
nathanscribe
VSE Review Contributor
VSE Review Contributor
Posts: 2889
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:03 pm
Location: The right side of the Pennines
Contact:

Re: MiniBrute vs CS-10/15

Post by nathanscribe » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:46 am

Solderman wrote:I looked into modding filter key-tracking, but it looks like the VCF chip needs a voltage at that input just to operate at all, so it would require a bit more engineering than I would want to attempt. Portamento from the CV inputs would also have been nice. Maybe some of the CS30 features like VCO FM and LFO waveform selection per destination too. Oh well.
Sounds like you want a CS-40m... you lose one filter, but gain almost all the rest. The 40m has Key CV tracking on/off (variable would have been nice, though), ring mod, destination-selectable LFO waveforms - and, one of my favourite things about it, there's an extra AD envelope that works with the ring mod, sweeps the LFO, and modulates pitch (selectable and depth-variable at destination). Sadly, this envelope is not triggered via the Gate input. I've seen the details of how to change that, but haven't got round to it as I tend to just play the keyboard.

I've had the CS-01, CS-5, CS-15 and the 40m - and when it came to selling stuff off to make space, I opted to keep the 40m over the 15. Partly for the extra flexibility, partly because I never really used the parallel filters much, partly because even when I did I wanted more modulation - but you also get duophony. And memories (with tape interface!). And a tonne of sockets round the back, including balanced outputs. It's a much more serious bit of kit than the all-black monos.

User avatar
Solderman
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
Posts: 1799
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:43 pm

Re: MiniBrute vs CS-10/15

Post by Solderman » Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:22 pm

I looked into the CS-20M, but it had no External input. Dunno about the 40, but both of them are significantly larger and heavier, plus I love, love, love the dual filters in the 15. Permanent 92% filter key tracking is tolerable so long as I have another multi-mode VCF mono that can adjust this. I'll be adding a mod soon with switched jacks for the modulation bus destinations so I can just send my own signals in modular style.

Ok, back to your regularly scheduled synth shootout.
I am no longer in pursuit of vintage synths. The generally absurd inflation from demand versus practical use and maintenance costs is no longer viable. The internet has suffocated and vanquished yet another wonderful hobby. Too bad.
--Solderman no more.

User avatar
meatballfulton
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5772
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:29 pm
Gear: Live 9, Logic Pro X

Re: MiniBrute vs CS-10/15

Post by meatballfulton » Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:44 pm

Because of the single VCO, the MiniBrute is better compared to the CS-5 and similar synths like MicroMoog, SH-101, SH-09, MS-10, etc.

Based on AG's videos, I'd take the MiniBrute over any one of those (disclaimer: I have only owned a 101) esp. since it's cheaper, has V/oct CVs, MIDI and USB and won't need maintenance as soon as I unpack it 8-)

I wish someone knew when they will actually ship the damn thing so the rest of us could actually get some hands-on.
I listened to Hatfield and the North at Rainbow. They were very wonderful and they made my heart a prisoner.

phosfiend
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:50 pm

Re: MiniBrute vs CS-10/15

Post by phosfiend » Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:00 pm

Hi,

First post here, and interesting thread, as I own a CS-15 (it's gurgling away behind me) and am considering picking up the Minibrute.

I'm no synth expert (in fact, I'm just getting back into making music), but the examples I've seen of the minibrute suggest that it has a potentially broader range of sonic properties than the CS-15. Admittedly, the demos seem to nearly all have people cranking the metalizer/brute factor knobs all the way up (which is cool) but I'm really interested in the calmer end of the spectrum. The minibrute seems to do the gnarly stuff well, but until I get my hands on one, I'm not so sure about its less aggressive sonic abilities - anyone care to chime in?

That said, I feel like the CS-15 (in my aforementioned limited experience) is a calmer synth - but can still get plenty gnarly too. The two VCO's are nice, and while I haven't got it all CV'd up yet (another reason why I joined the forum), I like the idea of triggering them seperately. As mentioned, on LFO is a bit limiting, but it goes into the audio range pretty easily, and the pulse wave (with PWM etc) on it sounds great.

Taken at the sum of their parts, the minibrute blows the CS-15 out of the water. But hey, synth preference is very subjective, and can't quite be summed up on a spreadsheet of features.

Until I get my hands on one (soon I hope), my initial impression is that they are quite different.

Richard

Post Reply