Page 1 of 3

DX 21 vs CZ 1000

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:29 pm
by Walter Ego
I have to sell one of them this week. Just picked up the DX, so I'm not as familiar with it as with the CZ. I'm tending toward keeping the CZ, and I got the DX really cheap.

pros/cons?

Here's a question--can the DX-21 do Pet Shop Boys style punchy bass, or is that from an analog machine?

Re: DX 21 vs CZ 1000

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:04 pm
by dustinh
Keep the cz in my opinion. Perhaps I"m a bit biased as I'm not as big a fan of FM synths, although it depends on how you program them, I do really dig certain FM sounds.

The cz is easier to program. So keep it and make amazing songs like this one.


Re: DX 21 vs CZ 1000

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:16 pm
by Walter Ego
dustinh wrote:Keep the cz in my opinion. Perhaps I"m a bit biased as I'm not as big a fan of FM synths, although it depends on how you program them, I do really dig certain FM sounds.

The cz is easier to program. So keep it and make amazing songs like this one.

Yeah, that's a fun song. I'd love to trade a CZ 1000 for a 101 actually...I like the smaller size and the portability factor. Also, I don't like the membrane buttons on the 1K.

Re: DX 21 vs CZ 1000

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:33 pm
by dustinh
Ah, I didn't even think about the membrane buttons. I hate those things, like the ones on my alpha juno. I like the cz-101 more too. It definitely has the cuteness factor going on with the mini keys. I'd probably pick that one, too, given the choice between the two.

Re: DX 21 vs CZ 1000

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:46 pm
by samuraipizzacat29
are you a software guy? both of them can be done easily in software, but more particularly, there's an app for ipad called dxi that makes a 4-op fm synth useless imho. way easier to program and sounds the same or better.

in any case, if you find someone willing to trade/pay something half decent for the DX, it's my experience that they're darn near impossible to sell so you'd be in pretty good shape. nearly anyone will take a casio cz just for fun so that'll be easier to turn if you need to in the future.

Re: DX 21 vs CZ 1000

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:25 pm
by madtheory
Well the CZ is really an FM synth with a subtractive style user interface. FM8 can definitely do CZ style sounds as well as FM, with far more flexibility and a much better sound.

That said, I still use my carefully made multisamples of Casio CZ-1 and VZ-1 sounds, in Kontakt.

Re: DX 21 vs CZ 1000

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:53 pm
by Walter Ego
samuraipizzacat29 wrote:are you a software guy?
I'm a reformed software guy.

I checked eBay sold listings, and plenty of DX 21s are being sold (100-200 range). It's probably easier to sell a CZ for the same reason I want to keep it...it's more fun and it's got some funky character.

Theoretically, a computer should be able to reproduce FM sounds really well, since they're made digitally to begin with...but I would still prefer to use the real deal...call it mojo or whatever. Even the FruityLoops DX-10 plugin made decent FM patches, but I've moved away from the VST environment for the time being. I'll confess, the DX 21 was only $40. The only thing wasted is space.

Re: DX 21 vs CZ 1000

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:42 pm
by vcs3
Don't forget that the DX21s is not a cut down version of a DX7 it's much less than a DX7.
The CZ-101 is CZ-1 or a CZ-3000 or a CZ-1000 with small keys.

The Pet Shop Boys bass was made with a DX7 or a Prophet 5, any way Micke knows :-)

Re: DX 21 vs CZ 1000

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:50 am
by Jabberwalky
I own, and use both extensively. Both may be working with the same sound generation, but I always end up with different patches on each.

Cz1000 Advantages:
Better Envelopes
Quicker to pull up familiar sounds, in a subtractive way.
Ring Mod
Battery Powered
True Dual Timbral on seperate midi channels (Often times reduced to monophonic however)
Holds more patches with Cartridge

Cz1000 Disadvantages:
Membrane buttons, which are annoying, and can go bad
Keys aren't as good, and less of them.
Only a pitch bender
No data slider (THIS IS KEY)
Build quality doesn't even compare
No Midi Thru (I use this a lot, but I lack a patchbay)
Midi isn't as well implemented. Can't dump patches
Internal Patches get lost when C batteries die.

Dx21 Advantages:
Wider Sound Palette
Push buttons, and data slider
Mod and Pitch wheels
Metal build with ok keybed
Split and Dual detune
Stereo output with a built in stereo chorus
More Mod routings, better LFO

Dx21 Disadvantages:
No dual timbrality with seperate midi channels
Harder to get patches you envision
Lower sound quality (aliasing, although I actually like this)
Cant' strap on like guitar ;)
No base analog waveforms to work with.
[/font]

Re: DX 21 vs CZ 1000

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:39 pm
by Walter Ego
Thanks for the in-depth comparison! That helps inform my decision.

Overall, if you have experience in this area, how do you think the 21 compares to others in the extensive DX line?

Re: DX 21 vs CZ 1000

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:17 am
by Jabberwalky
Well, it's at the low end, but the split layer ability is kinda unique it seems. It's better than the Dx9, but still has the crunch of the older dx line. Don't have experience with others really.

Re: DX 21 vs CZ 1000

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:01 pm
by briandc
It might be a bit late for the OP, but I thought I'd add, a very interesting piece made (not by me) using just a CZ-5000 and some reverb added:



And, the CZ line had 8 envelope steps in pitch, filter and amp, which gave a certain capability that the DX line never had, imo..

brian

Re: DX 21 vs CZ 1000

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:04 am
by Walter Ego
briandc wrote:It might be a bit late for the OP, but I thought I'd add, a very interesting piece made (not by me) using just a CZ-5000 and some reverb added:



And, the CZ line had 8 envelope steps in pitch, filter and amp, which gave a certain capability that the DX line never had, imo..

brian
Nice dreamy composition!

I eventually sold the DX and the CZ, but kept a RAM cart for the CZ. This week, I just traded for a 101, and the cart works fine in it, and so my CZ-1000 patches are back and sounding great. I guess I'm just not that interested in the DX line, but I really missed my CZ once I sold it. That 101 has some serious power.

Re: DX 21 vs CZ 1000

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:03 am
by madtheory
vcs3 wrote:Don't forget that the DX21s is not a cut down version of a DX7 it's much less than a DX7.
The CZ-101 is CZ-1 or a CZ-3000 or a CZ-1000 with small keys.
Not quite. The CZ-1 is distinct from the rest because it has velocity and aftertouch, and extensive layering abilities. Full comparison table here:
http://madtheory.com/site/?p=320

Re: DX 21 vs CZ 1000

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:04 am
by vynlOverdrive