JX-3P VS Polysix

[ppg_wavecomputer]

I hear people complain about the lack of oomph! with the JX. Roland seem to have cut the bass and low-mid end by about 3dB, just tweak it right back using an external EQ.

Stephen

[pinksoir]

Ok, so I was going to get Ko from Modeless to install the KIWI mod for me but he said that the PG-200 doesn't work properly with the mod installed. He said he installed it before and that some of the knobs on the PG don't respond as they should. He then contacted the KIWI peeps and was told that it's a known bug. Does anyone have any experience using the PG-200 with the mod?

[Aaron2]

Ok, so I was going to get Ko from Modeless to install the KIWI mod for me but he said that the PG-200 doesn't work properly with the mod installed. He said he installed it before and that some of the knobs on the PG don't respond as they should. He then contacted the KIWI peeps and was told that it's a known bug. Does anyone have any experience using the PG-200 with the mod?

I have the 3P and I used to have a PG-200. Now I have the Kiwitechnics Patch Editor (PE). I can tell you for certain that the JX-3P upgrade is designed to work with the PE, not the PG-200. Why? Because Murray makes money when you buy one of his PEs, but doesn't when you buy an old, used PG-200!

Seriously, if you're going to get the upgrade, better bite the bullet and get the PE. Plus, the PE works with a ton of other synths: 8P, 10P, Juno 1 and 2, Oberheim Matrix-6, Kawai K-3, and many others.

[Pro5]

[pinksoir]

Ok, so I was going to get Ko from Modeless to install the KIWI mod for me but he said that the PG-200 doesn't work properly with the mod installed. He said he installed it before and that some of the knobs on the PG don't respond as they should. He then contacted the KIWI peeps and was told that it's a known bug. Does anyone have any experience using the PG-200 with the mod?

I have the 3P and I used to have a PG-200. Now I have the Kiwitechnics Patch Editor (PE). I can tell you for certain that the JX-3P upgrade is designed to work with the PE, not the PG-200. Why? Because Murray makes money when you buy one of his PEs, but doesn't when you buy an old, used PG-200!

Seriously, if you're going to get the upgrade, better bite the bullet and get the PE. Plus, the PE works with a ton of other synths: 8P, 10P, Juno 1 and 2, Oberheim Matrix-6, Kawai K-3, and many others.

Cheers. To be honest, I'm not really into paying double what I paid for the synth itself for the upgrade and the PE. It would be worth it if I had any of the other synths it works with, but I don't right now so it doesn't make much sense. I'm gonna keep the 3p stock for now and just install the Organix mod, and if I feel like I need to upgrade down the line I always can do that. Plus, I could sell the PG and put that cash towards the upgrade/PE combo. I'd love the extra features of the KIWI thang, but I'm still super excited about the 3p on its own so while it's a little disappointing, it ain't the end of the world by any stretch.

I emailed Murray from KT about the use of the PG and Kiwi mod together and he just said that he wouldn't recommend it and that it's buggy. It's kind of annoying because it says on the site that they are compatible, but evidently they are not. If I hadn't done my research, I could have installed the hardware, removed the original chip and ended up with a crapshoot. Then needed to spend more cash to get a controller for it. They should make it absolutely clear on the site that they are in fact not 100% compatible.

But whatever, it's no big deal. Can't wait til my 3p arrives!

One more thing though. Is there a way to have the PG work when the 3p is receiving midi without the Organix mod? I don't really need CC control of all the parameters. I think I read somewhere that it's possible by modding the midi inputs in some way or other.

[Pro5]

Can't recall on the midi+pg at same time sans organix/kiwi mod but I don't think so?

I have the organix mod and it's allowed me to get rid of my PG-200 and use a novation remote zero which is actually MUCH nicer to use - smooth easy knobs and full LCD readout of parameters - sure it doesn't look as cool as you can't just sit it on the JX like with the PG but the money the PG's go for is ridiculous. I got my remote zero 2nd hand ebay for £50!!! and it does SO MUCH more besides (it can program any synth just like the PE thingy does but for a sixth of the price).

The KIWI mod itself is cool, but I would never buy the PE programmer when you can just use a generic box. Have had my JX since 2008 and had various programmers with it (PG, BCR, REMOTE ZERO) and they all end up being used the same, but the remote zero is very handy with the LCD readouts.

[corndogssg]

good synth shootout, considering that both of these keyboards are highly recommended to get upgrades with KIWI.

I'd say if your not gonna get the pg 200 or similar like the novation remote zero with the jx3p, don't get it. with it it's the s**t. without it you'll be pissed as s**t as editing anything is a menu dive from h**l.

funny the video with the jx3p and the juno 106, and the comment saying some sound better on one and some on the other, because I have always heard the jx3p was made to sort of compliment the juno's and sort of fill in the gaps where it's brother lacks so to speak.

this is a good shoot out, both are great boards. I'm more a roland over korg kind of guy, (unless your talking recently, where there ms20 mini wipes the floor with the sh 01 gaia)

[katiepea]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gg7mcmy72cjyu ... o.aif?dl=0

there's a quick square'ish bass I did on my JX-3P. I don't find the low end to be lacking honestly, it kicks with the right tweaks. That is a dry sound, nothing done to it, straight from the keyboard.

[db0451]

Something I see everywhere and by which I am completely baffled: Why does everyone say the JX series lack PWM? Their manuals have like an third of a page dedicated to explaining how this can totally be achieved using sync. Oh, right: everyone just repeats what they've heard, rather than actually reading the manual or trying out options.

Think about it: The sync master oscillator dictates the rising edge of the rectangular wave and thus the fundamental frequency. The frequency of the slave osc dictates the subsequent falling edge, which is soon reset by the master to generate another rising edge, and so on ad infinitum. The ratio between the oscs controls the distance between the edges and thus is precisely proportional to pulse width. Automated PWM is done simply by vibrato in the slave osc.

Please feel free to copy and paste the above to any of the many other places where people say they can't do PWM, with attribution of course.

[commodorejohn]

Yes, there is that technique, but in practice it doesn't sound the same; I assume that the effective modulation pattern is different enough to be noticeable.

[db0451]

I haven't spent any time comparing it to whatever you might class as 'traditional' PWM(?), but it meets the dictionary definition.

[commodorejohn]

Yes, but there's a big difference between a dictionary definition of a technique and the expectations of people based on actual practice.

[db0451]

People are free to try it for themselves and compare it to their expectations, although it’s not like the latter impose any mandate upon synth designers. None of this excuses the constant claims that PWM is outright absent, I would say.

[pflosi]

"Synthesizing" PWM with sync works perfectly fine, and as long as you get the ranges right sounds exactly the same. You can do this on any synth without PWM but with minimum 2 oscs and sync.

However, you'll use up both oscs for this task. Usually that's not what people expect from an "osc" with PWM.

[db0451]

"Synthesizing" PWM with sync works perfectly fine, and as long as you get the ranges right sounds exactly the same. You can do this on any synth without PWM but with minimum 2 oscs and sync.

Thank you! Anyone else can present a reasoned rebuttal of what we've said if they want, though I won't hold my breath.

However, you'll use up both oscs for this task. Usually that's not what people expect from an "osc" with PWM.

I thought of that objection earlier, and it's a very fair point, but it's way too specific to match the meme that the 3P lacks PWM altogether.

A great consolation prize to consuming both oscs is that we get an envelope for PWM again, last seen in the Juno-60. Enveloped PWM is Super Tasty.