Roland 5050 versus 5080

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Roland 5050 versus 5080

Postby knolan » Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:10 am

Apart from polyphony (64 Versus 128) and number of expansion slots, is there any other difference between the Roland 5050 and the 5080?

I've downloaded both manuals and can't spot any, but would be interested in the thoughts of anyone who has used them both.

In particular I'm keen to know if the 5050 is missing any PCM samples, filter types or effects types that the 5080 has?

Finally - will roland's XV5050 USB Driver and Sound Editor run on OSX 10.9?


Thanks,
Kevin.
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Re: Roland 5050 versus 5080

Postby desmond » Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:42 am

This gives you a good overview of the differences between instruments. the PCM sample count is the exact same between both, so it looks like everything is intact.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun02/a ... xv5050.asp

You also miss the 5080's ability to be a Roland playback sampler, or use your own waveforms in the synth engine. I have 128meg of sample ram in my 5080, and it's pretty cool. Unfortunately, the XV5080 Mac editor software is PPC only and so won't run on modern systems - I don't know about the 5050 software, but you can download a demo from Roland and try it out as I understand.

The 5080 looks cooler, too :)

If you want to geek out some more, Don Solaris's FAQ is an excellent source:
http://www.donsolaris.com/?p=404
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Re: Roland 5050 versus 5080

Postby knolan » Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:20 pm

Thanks Desmond !

Reading the article - I can see they are very similar - same PCM waveforms, effects and voice structure. The big difference is less DSP power in the 5050 meaning a limitation on using some of the COSM effects in performances.

But the major issue is that neither the USB driver nor the editor are supported by Roland on OSX beyond 10.6 - so that completely rules it out for me. I already own a 5080 (and love it) and am looking for a duplicate for a 2nd facility, and was hoping for a cheaper solution. Without the capacity to edit easily its now an option for me.
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Re: Roland 5050 versus 5080

Postby desmond » Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:24 pm

knolan wrote:But the major issue is that neither the USB driver nor the editor are supported by Roland on OSX beyond 10.6 - so that completely rules it out for me. I already own a 5080 (and love it) and am looking for a duplicate for a 2nd facility, and was hoping for a cheaper solution. Without the capacity to edit easily its now an option for me.


Not sure about USB - but the other options for editing include:
- keeping a PPC machine around to run old software
- run 10.6 in a VM under Parallels for your PPC software
- use a different editor, eg Midiquest, that is still currently supported

The USB thing you can get around by just using regular audio+MIDI - not as convenient, but you won't miss out on anything...
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Re: Roland 5050 versus 5080

Postby knolan » Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:18 pm

Thanks for the suggestions.

I don't like MIDI Quest - I bought it some years ago and found it incredibly unreliable in terms of MIDI communication with various instruments.

and since my Mac is a 10.9, running 10.6 is not an option ( correct me if I'm wrong on this - but you can't get old versions of OSX - can you?).

Are you saying that I could install some sort of virtual machine on my 10.9 mac that would run 10.6? If so, would that include comms over MIDI and Audio into a DAW running on 10.9 (some how) ?


Cheers,
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Re: Roland 5050 versus 5080

Postby desmond » Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:34 pm

knolan wrote:I don't like MIDI Quest - I bought it some years ago and found it incredibly unreliable in terms of MIDI communication with various instruments.


Yeah, I don't like it either, I'm a SoundDiver guy, but that has the same issue as the XV editor (PPC only).

knolan wrote:and since my Mac is a 10.9, running 10.6 is not an option ( correct me if I'm wrong on this - but you can't get old versions of OSX - can you?).

Are you saying that I could install some sort of virtual machine on my 10.9 mac that would run 10.6? If so, would that include comms over MIDI and Audio into a DAW running on 10.9 (some how) ?


Yes. I'm on 10.9 and I have a VM running under Parallels that runs my copy of 10.6 - in this I have SoundDiver, the XV Editor, and some other miscellaneous PPC bits and pieces like Korg editor apps and so on. (I also have a Windows 7 VM I need to use occasionally).

The way it works is, when you plugin in a USB MIDI interface with the 10.6 VM running, Parallels asks you whether the USB device should be connected to the native Mac, or to the VM. You choose VM, and now that USB MIDI interface is available to the 10.6 virtual machine, and your MIDI apps running there can communicate with the outside world - it works fine. I've used this with my emagic AMT8, and also my litle Korg microKontrol for MIDI, no problems.

It's a really handy "machine" to have (although I still do have my old PPC G4 Powerbook when necessary, which runs slower than the VM, but I did use Logic 6 on that recently to convert a bunch of old Atari Creator/Notator/Notator Logic songs from back in the day...)

As for how to get hold of it - I'm sure you can find a Snow Leopard OSX disk on ebay or something - I bought mine from Apple back in the day, it's only about £20 so it shouldn't be expensive.

As for audio - well that's a little outside the scope of this question which is about running PPC MIDI apps. It might work for audio over USB and/or FW but it might depend on how the drivers work - I haven't done this directly so I can't say without trying it. Certainly system audio gets piped back from the VM to the native Mac if you want, so you can still hear audio.

Note - if you want to route MIDI between VM's directly it's a little more tricky I think. If this is important to you I can take a look and refresh my memory as to whether it works and how to do it...
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Re: Roland 5050 versus 5080

Postby knolan » Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:00 am

Desmond - thanks a million for this fantastic information. You've given me a lot to think about. I'll likely not go for a 5050 as I need fairly seamless integration so a 5080 is surely the way to go given they are perhaps £200 more expensive these days.

As a total aside - and a long shot - can the VM running OSX 10.6 run old OS9 applications - I have a Yamaha VL1 and the old Yamaha editors that are OS9. A really long shot I know.


Thanks again for your time and expertise - very useful for all sorts of scenarios I now need to think about!


Cheers,
Kevin.
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Re: Roland 5050 versus 5080

Postby desmond » Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:28 am

knolan wrote:Desmond - thanks a million for this fantastic information. You've given me a lot to think about.


No worries - give me a shout if you need more info.

knolan wrote:As a total aside - and a long shot - can the VM running OSX 10.6 run old OS9 applications - I have a Yamaha VL1 and the old Yamaha editors that are OS9. A really long shot I know.


You could probably have a separate VM running OS9 for those. OSX won't run OS9 applications - I think in the very early days (maybe up to 10.4 there was an emulated Mac Classic mode but that disappeared if I remember correctly). I'm sure however you can setup an OS9 VM. Heck, I've even got a virtual emulated Atari ST on my MBP to access all my old Atari stuff...

knolan wrote:Thanks again for your time and expertise - very useful for all sorts of scenarios I now need to think about!


You're welcome!

Edit: Had a quick google, looks like you can't run OS9 in Parallels - however, there is a program called Sheepshaver which emulates OS9:
http://sheepshaver.cebix.net

In short, specifics aside, you can get your OS9 apps running on your machine in some fashion.
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Re: Roland 5050 versus 5080

Postby meatballfulton » Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:43 pm

desmond wrote:I'm sure you can find a Snow Leopard OSX disk on ebay or something - I bought mine from Apple back in the day, it's only about £20 so it shouldn't be expensive..


Apple still sells OS 10.6 (Snow Leopard) on disk...I bought a copy just a few weeks ago to fix my wife's old laptop. It was about $20.

desmond wrote:You could probably have a separate VM running OS9 for those. OSX won't run OS9 applications - I think in the very early days (maybe up to 10.4 there was an emulated Mac Classic mode but that disappeared if I remember correctly).


This was called Rosetta and was still available in 10.6, dropped in 10.7 (Lion).
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Re: Roland 5050 versus 5080

Postby madtheory » Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:08 pm

desmond, I'm not clear on how you get Snow Leopard into a Virtual Machine- how is this done? What software is needed?

I've been testing Sheepshaver. So far it the only music app it runs reliably is Passport Alchemy. Nothing else works, even though everything on the same disc image works reliably in a (real) G3/266 under Mac OS 9.1 (I imaged its hard drive). I'm actually having trouble getting Sheepshaver to mount the disc image.
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Re: Roland 5050 versus 5080

Postby desmond » Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:04 pm

meatballfulton wrote:This was called Rosetta and was still available in 10.6, dropped in 10.7 (Lion).


Yes, Rosetta is what lets PPC OSX applications run on OSX - and it's for this reason that we are using a VM with 10.6 on.

It's not however what I meant, early OSX versions had a iirc "Classic Environment" that let OSX run OS9 apps (rather than Rosetta, which lets Intel OSX machines run PPC OSX apps).
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Re: Roland 5050 versus 5080

Postby desmond » Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:09 pm

madtheory wrote:desmond, I'm not clear on how you get Snow Leopard into a Virtual Machine- how is this done? What software is needed?


You need a virtualisation software that supports the OS you want to virtualize (eg Parallels) and you need the master install disks of your OS. You simply start Parallels, select the "create a new VM", pop in the Snow Leopard master disks and Parallels installs this OS onto a new virtual machine. Basically the same way as creating any other VM, like a Windows one.

I can't remember if I had to do anything else special, I created that Snow Leopard VM quite a while ago. For a while 10.6 wasn't supported until a specific Parallels version added support for it.

madtheory wrote:I've been testing Sheepshaver. So far it the only music app it runs reliably is Passport Alchemy. Nothing else works, even though everything on the same disc image works reliably in a (real) G3/266 under Mac OS 9.1 (I imaged its hard drive). I'm actually having trouble getting Sheepshaver to mount the disc image.


I've never used it, so I can't vouch for how well it works, I simply did a search around and found multiple recommendations for this. YMMV but I can't comment any further as I simply have no experience of this. There may well be other emulators out there that can emulate an OS9 Mac...
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Re: Roland 5050 versus 5080

Postby desmond » Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:04 pm

Well, that was easy - Just as a test I just grabbed the "Chubby Bunny" OS9 zip for Sheepshare, unzipped it and ran it, and I have an OS9 Mac here on this machine. Very cool, and very easy to try.

http://www.macwindows.com/Emulator-for- ... -Lion.html

I don't have much old Mac stuff, I only had an LCIII with OS7 on it for a while and never really used it much, but at least this runs. Your expectations for these things should be low - don't expect to run ProTools directly interfacing with hardware as a DAW etc - but you should be able to run old programs to access and convert files, MIDI software if MIDI interfacing works (which I don't know yet with Sheepshaver), and so on.
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Re: Roland 5050 versus 5080

Postby madtheory » Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:27 pm

Ya you're right. I was hoping to use it to run some older audio processing stuff, like Hyperprism in Bias Peak, Sound Effects 0.9.2, Thunk (random granular thingy). It does also run Prosoniq SonicWorx, which was a very high quality audio editor but didn't do much weird stuff like the others. Antares Infinity is another nice one that works on the G3 but not in CHubby Bunny :(

I was inspired by John Hopkins, who runs his old PC in Parallels so he can do all of the audio processing he's been doing since 1998 or so, and sequence it all in Logic.

The good news (for me) is that I don't need to read old Yamaha TX16W disc image backups on a Mac- NuEdge recently made a VST/AU that emulates that machine exactly. :)
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Re: Roland 5050 versus 5080

Postby desmond » Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:58 pm

madtheory wrote:I was inspired by John Hopkins, who runs his old PC in Parallels so he can do all of the audio processing he's been doing since 1998 or so, and sequence it all in Logic.


*Love* Jon Hopkins - so rare to have someone in EDM who is actually a gifted sound designer and incredibly tasteful composer as well.

madtheory wrote:The good news (for me) is that I don't need to read old Yamaha TX16W disc image backups on a Mac- NuEdge recently made a VST/AU that emulates that machine exactly. :)


Yeah, I've got that one too - it's interesting, but *painful* to use... :)

But like many of us, we have a fascination, nostalgia or old files we like to revisit, and it's amazing we have the tech to do all this nowadays...
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