Neuron vs. Fizmo vs. K5000 vs. Morpheus vs. FS1R

A forum for comparing two or more synths against each other. Also known as "versus" threads.

Neuron vs. Fizmo vs. K5000 vs. Morpheus vs. FS1R

Postby thefonz003 » Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:31 pm

Five unusual synths capable of generating extremely complex sounds full of motion. Go!
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Re: Neuron vs. Fizmo vs. K5000 vs. Morpheus vs. FS1R

Postby briandc » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:52 pm

Sure would be nice to read some responses to this one! ;)


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Re: Neuron vs. Fizmo vs. K5000 vs. Morpheus vs. FS1R

Postby rhino » Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:37 am

WARNING the following is IMHO only...

1. K5000. You need a good editor and about a week to craft a realy good soundset. The ability to use or remove partials in non real world configurations is a big plus.

2. FIZMO. This beast will move up to #1 as soon as someone cracks the SYSEX code and we can access all the parameters. Like most Ensoniq, has a rich, smooth sound - great for pads.

3. MORPHEUS. Good luck finding one, but of you do, this one is a killer. Get an editor or you'll go blind looking at the tiny display.

4. NEURON. Too rare, too pricey, no parts. A cool concept: uses reverse Fourier transform to break a sample into a list of harmonics, then let you diddle with them, then combine back into a sound.

5. FS1R. If you play this from a plastic keyboard, you'll miss 75% of its capabilities. You'll need velocity, poly AT, a breath controler and at least one foot pedal - and a bit of practice to bring it to life.
EDIT: you, I know. Yamaha save 50 cents by leaving off jacks. You'll need several analog to SYSEX boxes to get that kind of control.
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Re: Neuron vs. Fizmo vs. K5000 vs. Morpheus vs. FS1R

Postby abruzzi » Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:13 am

I've owned three of them (K5000S, Morpheus, FS1R), and only still have the K5000S. I'd love the try the other two, but given prices, its unlikely.

Morpheus: I still have a Ultra proteus which is the same engine, a few more filters, and a more quotidian sample set. Basically a two layer rompler. The big selling points are the 200+ filters and the function generator. A lot of the filters aren't all that interesting, though overall its quite capable.

FS1R: Until the Montage, this was the pinnacle of FM. It still is since the Montage uses the same basic engine. The FS1R also has the "unvoiced" operators but I never found that stuff that interesting sonically. I ended up with a TG77 and SY99 instead for my FM fix. I sold the FS1R mostly because the prices got so sky high.

K5000S: You buy it for the additive, but you keep it for the formant filter, which is the secret weapon of this synth. One of the more tedious synths to program, but quite unique sounding
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Re: Neuron vs. Fizmo vs. K5000 vs. Morpheus vs. FS1R

Postby madtheory » Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:37 am

rhino wrote:4. NEURON. Too rare, too pricey, no parts. A cool concept: uses reverse Fourier transform to break a sample into a list of harmonics, then let you diddle with them, then combine back into a sound.

AFAIK it's a Linux PC in a box? No idea what the i/o is. There is a plugin, still works on a Mac. Doesn't let you do the resynthesis (although that can be done with a PPC Mac setup) and needs something to replace the NUKE remote. But it is fun :)

http://www.neuron-synth.com/html/Home.html

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Re: Neuron vs. Fizmo vs. K5000 vs. Morpheus vs. FS1R

Postby ItsMeOnly » Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:39 pm

madtheory wrote:AFAIK it's a Linux PC in a box? No idea what the i/o is.

Gentoo Linux on a Celeron
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Re: Neuron vs. Fizmo vs. K5000 vs. Morpheus vs. FS1R

Postby garranimal » Sat Jul 30, 2016 4:15 am

I've owned a Fiz, K5000, and Neuron VS Nuke. If I had a choice I would go for the Fizmo again, or maybe give the Morpheus a whirl.

The Neuron thing is cool since, as a re-synthesizer, you can prepare new models from samples. And that's just where the fun begins as well as a steep learning curve. Much to do with interpreting the parameters jargon into something meaningful so you can navigate. Unfortunately the Neuron VS is tethered into Windows XP and antique Mac OS oblivion. The hardware synth is just flat out cost-prohibitive. I would love to see Axel put together a compact desktop hardware version using todays available technology at a cost-effective price point.

Also steep is the K5000 but so are the features, my favorite also was the formant filter section. Additive synthesis, editing and modulating sounds in frequency slices is not for the faint. Especially with its user interface, it's like drawing a picture looking through a microscope. Because of the nature of adding sine wave frequencies together, at first for me, most of the time the result is organ tones. My workflow was to generate only a handful of different kinds of timbres, then generate new sounds by modifying those. The on-board Kawai effects are pretty good. I would like to see an additive synthesizer with a touch screen interface that behaves more like the Izotope Iris software.

The Fizmo brings us wavetable/transwave digital goodness and great modulation possibilities. Lots of relevant controls on the front. Lots of little sweet spots and unpredictable outcomes with nice results. Fun to edit and play, well built aside from the voltage regulator issue that is not hard to resolve.

My Emulator X2 software contains the crazy Z-Plane Morpheus filters which morph across 14-poles that is otherworldly. I usually cannot get usable, easy on the ear, sounds with these filters but they are unique. Pair that with the Morpheus ability to also transform waves into other ones. I've heard some good demos of this module.

I love my TX81Z, and the FS1R is compelling as the end-all-be-all of FM synthesis. However, commanding eight operators and formants on the tiny LCD is not appealing to me.
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Re: Neuron vs. Fizmo vs. K5000 vs. Morpheus vs. FS1R

Postby madtheory » Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:47 am

Alchemy, in Logic and Mainstage, does resynthesis to additive. At least, it did before Apple bought out Camel Audio.
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Re: Neuron vs. Fizmo vs. K5000 vs. Morpheus vs. FS1R

Postby desmond » Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:27 am

madtheory wrote:At least, it did before Apple bought out Camel Audio.


And it continues to, afterwards...
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Re: Neuron vs. Fizmo vs. K5000 vs. Morpheus vs. FS1R

Postby tom Cadillac » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:51 am

Infinite respect for these deep digital synths.

I've used my fs1r a lot recently - and am getting to appreciate abandoning the need for conscious control in favour of just tweeking and exploring - often finding sweet random spots.

I've not played my fizmo for a while but its amazing. I think I prefer the sound of the fs1r - which I think oddly enough sounds like the perfect synth to me. It's so complex that the idea of having a keyboard version maybe became impossible - just too much there to control with one hardware interface. I'm learning to live with the very serious limitations the rack has. I play free improv jazz and this has influenced my attitude to music making. The fs1r is a wealth of happy accidents.

Of the others - I've got an emu audity 2000- which is packed full of filters etc and has some really interesting sounds.
Its very distinct but much more limited than the other two. It may be cheaper to buy than the morpheus? From memory I think it's very similar in filters etc.?

Oh and I agree about the fs1r keyboard interface - I used a wavestation as controller once and the vector stick operates on 4 different sounds within most fs1r patches and can be used to morph between them. very satisfying.
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Re: Neuron vs. Fizmo vs. K5000 vs. Morpheus vs. FS1R

Postby minime123 » Wed Aug 17, 2016 3:06 pm

i love all of them but they're each a pain in the a55 to program. for some reason, im thinking the fizmo. maybe its the knobs (actually, this one isn't such a pain to program) and the quirky sounds.
otherwise, if you can deal with the amount of time it takes to program, the fs1r would probably be my first choice cause its so flexible.
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Re: Neuron vs. Fizmo vs. K5000 vs. Morpheus vs. FS1R

Postby abruzzi » Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:59 am

tom Cadillac wrote:Of the others - I've got an emu audity 2000- which is packed full of filters etc and has some really interesting sounds.
Its very distinct but much more limited than the other two. It may be cheaper to buy than the morpheus? From memory I think it's very similar in filters etc.?



There is a lot of confusion over the later E-mu sound modules. The Audity 2000 and all the later Proteus 2000 modules (XL-1, Planet Earth, Virtuoso 2000, Orbit 3, P2500, Command Stations, etc.) are architecturally the same: up to 4 layers, choice of 50 filters per layer with two parameters per filter (usually cutoff and resonance) one of which is fixed at note-on and the other which is dynamic/real time.

The Morpheus and Ultraproteus are different in that they have only two layers in a standard preset, but they have a lot more filters--197 in a morpheus and 288 in an Ultraproteus, and the filters mostly have 3 parameters (again, only one is realtime) the extra parameter is usually a morph that allows the filters 14 poles to rearrange to a different configuration. The morpheus and UP also don't have the upgradable ROM slots that the later modules have. The other unique thing in the Morpheus and UP are the function generators which are essentially 8 segment envelopes/lfos where each segment can have on of 64 different curves, including linear, chaos, zigzag, exponential, and conditional jumping. They are very unique devices, but they can also be maddening.
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Re: Neuron vs. Fizmo vs. K5000 vs. Morpheus vs. FS1R

Postby vicd » Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:43 am

garranimal wrote:I would like to see an additive synthesizer with a touch screen interface that behaves more like the Izotope Iris software.

You could try VirSyn's Addictive Synth (yes, that means an iPad) - it's pretty much that (and yet more), including hand-drawn filter curves.

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Re: Neuron vs. Fizmo vs. K5000 vs. Morpheus vs. FS1R

Postby philip » Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:13 am

Korg z1
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Re: Neuron vs. Fizmo vs. K5000 vs. Morpheus vs. FS1R

Postby abruzzi » Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:44 am

philip wrote:Korg z1


Very under-rated synth. A lot of people thinks it's just an early VA, but some of the odd-ball oscillators like the resonance osc or the comb filter can be pretty unique.
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