Vox in industrial music

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nbellum
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Vox in industrial music

Post by nbellum » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:38 am

I messed around for so long with the vocoder feature in FL Studio 8 trying to get the right sound out of it. What I am looking for is how to get my voice to sound the same as the guy from bands such as Suicide Commando, Tactical Sekt, Virtual Embrace, etc... It seemed no matter what sound patch I put on the carrier nothing came close to that. I eventually got my voice to sound like the Decepticons on Transformers but that's not really close to the sound I'm looking for.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by redroomrecordings » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:57 am

nbellum wrote:I messed around for so long with the vocoder feature in FL Studio 8 trying to get the right sound out of it. What I am looking for is how to get my voice to sound the same as the guy from bands such as Suicide Commando, Tactical Sekt, Virtual Embrace, etc... It seemed no matter what sound patch I put on the carrier nothing came close to that. I eventually got my voice to sound like the Decepticons on Transformers but that's not really close to the sound I'm looking for.
thats because none of those acts use vocoders in thier main vocals. you have to train your voice, practice death metal or black metal style vocals. you're voice should sound cool on it's own. the only effect usually used on those types of vocals besides delay and reverb is chorus and or pitch shifter.

for my album stuff i will add a bit of distortion as well but for live i just keep it to delay and reverb to avoid feedback which is what a lot of ebm acts do.

i'm not sure why everyone thinks there is a magic terror ebm vocal effect that you can slap on to get "that" sound.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by nbellum » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:12 am

Bullshit. I can scream/growl like any metal band out there and what I hear coming from them is not that.

edit: What I am hearing from them is more like TALKING into a mic mixed with RADIO STATIC.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by Johnny Lenin » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:57 am

nbellum wrote:edit: What I am hearing from them is more like TALKING into a mic mixed with RADIO STATIC.
Well... I haven't heard the music you're listening to, but if you're looking for the radio/telephone/megaphone sound [like Mark Smith on The Fall's "Telephone Thing"], there are a number of ways to get that.

In recording, you can overdrive the sound, maybe add a tiny bit of distortion, and tweak a filter or the EQ to accent certain frequencies [eg high frequencies for small speaker/telephone sound]. There are also some VSTs out there that make that somewhat easier...

In hardware, there are a lot of options. I once had an Ibanez LF7 pedal that did the trick nicely... until I left it behind at a gig. Hardware is useful if you're playing out. Just don't leave gear behind. It won't be there the next day.

Image

The Digitech Vocal 300 and Vocal 400 have lo-fi and telephone presets, and a whole lot of other chainable effects. I haven't used it, but I'd like to.

And then there are all manner of rack effects that have lo-fi/radio/megaphone/telephone presets.

Image

If I am wrong about what you're asking, then disregard this.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by synth3tik » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:04 am

All those guys just distort there vocals. Mainly because they can't "sing" to save their lives. Most of the time this leads to horrible tracks. Funker Vogt, Suicide Commandos and the like all have horrible vocal tracks and that takes almost everything away from the track.

Nivek from Puppy used delays and modulation on his vocal tracks.

I would work with your natural voice and then just add some FM or something to it until you get the desired effect. Please don't just use distortion, it sounds really bad,

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by nbellum » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:07 am

http://www.myspace.com/suicidecommando

Listen to a few songs off of there.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by redroomrecordings » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:15 am

nbellum wrote:Bullshit. I can scream/growl like any metal band out there and what I hear coming from them is not that.

edit: What I am hearing from them is more like TALKING into a mic mixed with RADIO STATIC.
ok.....but i've played with most of those guys and know thier set ups. trust me there is no vocoder involved....well sc used a vocoder on some tracks but not for the typical vocal style you mean. im telling you, chorus and a pitch shifter is what gives it that fat watery distortion over the voice. yes it can sound like talking but you have to "talk" in the right tones to get the effects to do what you want.

also keep in mind that eq plays a big part, try dropping the low end and some of the high, bring up the high mids...that will give it that "radio effect"....for a bit of static add some distiortion but dont overdo it. another good thing to mix in is some bit reduction, but with this you have to get the settings just right or you will sound like a silly robot...perhaps that is the effect you are mistaking for a vocoder.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by nbellum » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:50 am

redroomrecordings wrote:
nbellum wrote:Bullshit. I can scream/growl like any metal band out there and what I hear coming from them is not that.

edit: What I am hearing from them is more like TALKING into a mic mixed with RADIO STATIC.
ok.....but i've played with most of those guys and know thier set ups. trust me there is no vocoder involved....well sc used a vocoder on some tracks but not for the typical vocal style you mean. im telling you, chorus and a pitch shifter is what gives it that fat watery distortion over the voice. yes it can sound like talking but you have to "talk" in the right tones to get the effects to do what you want.

also keep in mind that eq plays a big part, try dropping the low end and some of the high, bring up the high mids...that will give it that "radio effect"....for a bit of static add some distiortion but dont overdo it. another good thing to mix in is some bit reduction, but with this you have to get the settings just right or you will sound like a silly robot...perhaps that is the effect you are mistaking for a vocoder.
Ok thanks a lot I will try that.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by space6oy » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:53 am

redroomrecordings wrote:im telling you, chorus and a pitch shifter is what gives it that fat watery distortion over the voice. yes it can sound like talking but you have to "talk" in the right tones to get the effects to do what you want.
+1
i don't mess w/ vocals much, but it sounds to me like you could do that w/ a delay & a whammy or other pitch shifter that have wet & dry outs. that'd let you offset the dropped pitch a bit before running both into a chorus.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by nbellum » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:57 am

Oh and another thing red since you know about playing live. I plan on playing my Korg R3 live in an industrial/synth metal band along with a bass guitarist, an electric guitarist, and a drummer. What else do I need in the way of getting my sound right like mixers/pedals/accessories. I will be standing up when playing can anyone recommend me to a decent stand and amp as well as anything else I might need.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by tallowwaters » Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:00 am

Can't say for those bands (hate 'em all) but I do lots of vocal f**k - your best friends are crystal element microphones, alesis bitrman, an insanely aggressive compressor (actually, a few chained together for that Al Jourgenson sounds), a cheapo amp simulator, and some typical modulation effects. These will get you all sorts of industrial vocal sounds.

h**l, i used to have a thread with a bunch of my samples of it...
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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by nbellum » Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:19 am

tallowwaters wrote:Can't say for those bands (hate 'em all) but I do lots of vocal f**k - your best friends are crystal element microphones, alesis bitrman, an insanely aggressive compressor (actually, a few chained together for that Al Jourgenson sounds), a cheapo amp simulator, and some typical modulation effects. These will get you all sorts of industrial vocal sounds.

h**l, i used to have a thread with a bunch of my samples of it...
I'm sort of new to playing live could you explain how I would set this up? Also... I looked for a Bitrman and a crystal element microphone and I couldn't find either. I don't know what a compressor is, or an amp simulator is.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by Johnny Lenin » Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:50 am

The R3 is a fairly light synth, so any X-stand will do. Try to find one with 3/4 inch tubing in the event that you decide to add another board to your rig. Stands are pretty cheap. With one keyboard, you won't need your own mixer unless you're setting up a home studio. As for amps... well, depending on where you're playing, you might just go direct through the board, you might not. Spend some money on a decent, keyboard-specific amp.

A compressor compresses the dynamic range of your signal, reducing the volume difference between soft sounds and loud sounds my raising the volume of the soft sounds. An amp simulator takes a dry audio signal and simulates the effect of various kinds of amps, particularly tube amps. Analog amplification can greatly colour sound, and that's the effect that amp simulators do.

Effects come in all shapes and sizes; which is best is a matter of taste. You can get rack units -- the good ones can be pretty costly and the cheap ones, like the Behringer Virtualizer, can be cheap [though it is capable of doing a few pretty neat things].

Effects also come in pedal form. I personally think a good guitar distortion or overdrive are essential. I use an Electro Harmonix Big Muff -- the grandaddy of distortion pedals -- and an Ibanez TS-9 Tubescreamer overdrive. You can also get stand-alone compresor, chorus and delay. Typically, you get what you pay for. If you're starting out, you might want to look into multi-effects pedals, and most of these have both compression and amp sims as well as other effects. I use a Digitech RP-250 with my organ. There are some things that I really don't like about it -- the wah sucks -- but for the most part, it does a pretty good job.

The multi-effects pedal might, in fact, be the way to go if you're just starting out and have a limited budget. You can always upgrade.

Anyway... go to the website from which you plan to order your R3, go to the guitar section and see the variety of effects pedals available. Then go to the recording section and browse through the effects processors. It will be an education.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by redroomrecordings » Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:55 am

nbellum wrote:Oh and another thing red since you know about playing live. I plan on playing my Korg R3 live in an industrial/synth metal band along with a bass guitarist, an electric guitarist, and a drummer. What else do I need in the way of getting my sound right like mixers/pedals/accessories. I will be standing up when playing can anyone recommend me to a decent stand and amp as well as anything else I might need.
for your r3 you will just need 2 1/4" cables for your outs (left and right)....the soundguy can plug them directly into a di on the stage and you will be good to go.

if you plan on doing vocals live keep in mind any effects you add will increase the chances of feedback. this is why i recomend only using delay and possibly some chorus live, my vocals are pretty processed on cd but live i strip them down a lot and just belt it out.

if you are doing vocals live just go with a shure mic and a preamp, if your starting out and price is an issue just get a presonus bluetube for your preamp...one thing that is good for adding a bit of angry distortion type sound live without using distortion is to turn the gain up quite a bit on the pre amp but then turn the output gain down to compensate....

if you wanna see some of my live vocals to see what i do:

[youtube][/youtube]

sorry, track has an extended intro so it takes a while for vocals to even kick in...but you can hear how you can have that ebm sound with only delay and your voice...although i do a slightly more black metal style of singing.

also

[youtube][/youtube]

that video has live audio with the album version added underneath for a little more punch, so you can sorta hear the mix of live vocals and studio vocals at the same time.

hope this helps.

edit: fixed the embedded videos.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by Zamise » Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:36 am

Yeah I agree its definatly not a vocoder trick they commonly use, and yeah their vocs do kind of ruin the songs, but thats what industrial is kind of known for, they are more EBM or IDM to those that have been mentioned I think, bad vocs. If it wasn't for the vocals they'd probably just be new wave songs or something more happy.

Maybe can try changing or converting your vocal recording sample rate down to 22 or 11khz range might do the trick too instead of always using a 44.1 or higher rate if you always do it that way. I almost never record at 44.1 or above for my own vocals personally, 22 and 11khzs usally is enough to get out the cleanness and worst of the suck. 5khz if I'm spitting up blood. If needing it done live, look for an effects processor that has a Lo-Fi or bit reducer programs. Certain kinds of delays, control dealys can work great for more robotic trype voices too.

Maybe use a walky talky??? Or, lots of tobacco & hard alcohol can tend to scruff up your voice too, but thats prob not a good way.

Just a couple more suggestions, and good luck with however you find best and most usefull, but do stay away from vocoders as much as possible ;)

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