Vox in industrial music

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by nbellum » Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:34 pm

Johnny Lenin wrote:The R3 is a fairly light synth, so any X-stand will do. Try to find one with 3/4 inch tubing in the event that you decide to add another board to your rig. Stands are pretty cheap. With one keyboard, you won't need your own mixer unless you're setting up a home studio. As for amps... well, depending on where you're playing, you might just go direct through the board, you might not. Spend some money on a decent, keyboard-specific amp.

A compressor compresses the dynamic range of your signal, reducing the volume difference between soft sounds and loud sounds my raising the volume of the soft sounds. An amp simulator takes a dry audio signal and simulates the effect of various kinds of amps, particularly tube amps. Analog amplification can greatly colour sound, and that's the effect that amp simulators do.

Effects come in all shapes and sizes; which is best is a matter of taste. You can get rack units -- the good ones can be pretty costly and the cheap ones, like the Behringer Virtualizer, can be cheap [though it is capable of doing a few pretty neat things].

Effects also come in pedal form. I personally think a good guitar distortion or overdrive are essential. I use an Electro Harmonix Big Muff -- the grandaddy of distortion pedals -- and an Ibanez TS-9 Tubescreamer overdrive. You can also get stand-alone compresor, chorus and delay. Typically, you get what you pay for. If you're starting out, you might want to look into multi-effects pedals, and most of these have both compression and amp sims as well as other effects. I use a Digitech RP-250 with my organ. There are some things that I really don't like about it -- the wah sucks -- but for the most part, it does a pretty good job.

The multi-effects pedal might, in fact, be the way to go if you're just starting out and have a limited budget. You can always upgrade.

Anyway... go to the website from which you plan to order your R3, go to the guitar section and see the variety of effects pedals available. Then go to the recording section and browse through the effects processors. It will be an education.
So you mean for me to get a guitar effects pedal for my synth?

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by Stab Frenzy » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:21 am

Yeah, you should definately try running your synths through guitar pedals. Just make sure you keep the level low so you don't just drive the f**k out of the pedal.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by nbellum » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:49 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:Yeah, you should definately try running your synths through guitar pedals. Just make sure you keep the level low so you don't just drive the f**k out of the pedal.
Thanks.
Last edited by nbellum on Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:52 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by Johnny Lenin » Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:41 am

nbellum wrote:So you mean for me to get a guitar effects pedal for my synth?
Pretty much. The best thing to do is look at what onboard effects your synth already has and then shop around for effects pedals to fill in the gaps. Some of the basic ones are distortion/overdrive, delay, chorus and reverb. You amp will often have built-in effects, as well. Personally, I think a good analog(y) overdrive might be just the thing for industrial music.

Synth players use guitar effects all the time. The advantage of pedals is that you can switch the effect on and of with your feet. The disadvantage is that most guitar effects pedals are mono.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by nbellum » Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:53 am

A couple more things.. I was reading that the band Deadsy (one of my favorite bands and an influence to this) uses a Boss Hyperfuzz pedal to get their distinct sound, would you recommend this pedal for my synth?

Also I am wondering if you can say hook up an ESX-1 and a microphone to one amp and have different effects for the synth and the mic. I know they are going to use different cords obviously so you would run the cord from the mic into an effects processor and run the synth into a different efffects processor and the sound would come out as if you had them hooked up to dedicated amps. I'm on a budget so what would be my best solution?

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by Zamise » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:23 am

nbellum wrote:A couple more things.. I was reading that the band Deadsy (one of my favorite bands and an influence to this) uses a Boss Hyperfuzz pedal to get their distinct sound, would you recommend this pedal for my synth?

Also I am wondering if you can say hook up an ESX-1 and a microphone to one amp and have different effects for the synth and the mic. I know they are going to use different cords obviously so you would run the cord from the mic into an effects processor and run the synth into a different efffects processor and the sound would come out as if you had them hooked up to dedicated amps. I'm on a budget so what would be my best solution?
I don't see why not, best if the amp has two or more inputs I'd think though otherwise your going to probably need a small mixer,you'd just need the extra cords either way then. You could chain the mic into the pedal and then into the EMX, but you'd get the pedal's effects that are after the EMX on your vocs too when on, which probably wouldn't always be good but may not always be bad either, so it could be done that way too. If you get a mixer, many of them come with an Auxilary FX outs and returns which is probably the best or more proper way to do it, but I'd not worry about that until you get one. For the price of a decent mixer you could probably get two more fx pedals and hook them up in line with the other two so you can have both or neither fx on each.
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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by nbellum » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:49 am

Would any keyboard midi-controller work for the ESX-1 or do I need a specific type?

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by Zamise » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:02 am

nbellum wrote:Would any keyboard midi-controller work for the ESX-1 or do I need a specific type?
You shouldn't need a specific type as long as it is a midi keyboard with a midi out you should be able to use its keys, and at least some of its knobs too if it has them for stuff like ADSR and Res & Cut should work too.

The EXS-1 only has monosynth synth parts I do believe, not 100% sure of that though, so if your thinking your that your going to be able to play it much of any little better than what it has for mini keys and knobs etc. it might be a bit of a surprise, monosynth parts means 1 note at a time if you didn't know this, but it might help some tho, just maybe not as much as you may be expecting if wanting to do chords or overlap notes on its synth parts. Although playing monosynth keys on a keyboard rather than minikeys with their black notes in line with the white notes and portamento turned up and depending on note priorites etc. etc., can still be quite a bit of fun. Drum parts will prob be polyphonic tho so more than one key at time can be used there I'm thinking, and you might find it easier to find your groupings of drum easier to locate as stuff like hi-hats and crashes will be black keys, and kicks and snares on white keys, that is if they are ordered in standard midi fashion kits. Again, I'm not 100% certain of this info., you should know your electribe better than I do for this already.

If your looking to get away for cheaper, I don't think you necessarly need a midi keyboard controller right away with the ESX I guess is what I'm saying, wait and save just a little more, may even can find something decent with midi control and a keyboard that has built in sounds that will be polyphonic that you can play and still use as a midi keyboard in to your ESX as well. The Novation X-Stations I think are pretty awesome combo with the electribes. Just a suggestion tho.
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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by nbellum » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:10 am

Instead of the R3 I have been looking at the EMX-1 as my first choice. The advantages are obviously it can do drums as well as synth but the synth is only mono instead of poly. As far as an industrial/synth metal band what would you suggest giving that we have a bass guitarist, electric guitarist, and drummer already.

edit: I am going to be the singer as well.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by divineaudio » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:40 am

i usually record my vocals with a cheapo ribbon mic run through a cheapo tube preamp and then process the f**k out of them. for example, one of my vocal tracks was gated, then distorted in soundforge (slew rate turned up), run through a t-racks limiter and eq, then bussed out through hardware reverb which was also eq'd and mixed in to the original track. i can't sing for s**t, but i know how to get the sound i want.

live i just scream with a little reverb and delay. industrial is supposed to be raw anyway. :twisted:

one note for playing live - always, always, always do a sound check before you play. get everything setup and set all of your levels before the audience shows up. live shows are a whole different game than studio work, and every venue is different. and be prepared for something to go wrong, because it will.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by Stab Frenzy » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:44 am

It would sound quite different depending on which option you go with. With the EMX you can have synth drums as well as the live drums, I reckon that's something that sounds pretty cool. You'll have to make sure your drummer can play along with the drum tracks though, some drummers can't and it sounds pretty bad when they go out of time with each other. You'll probably need to get a pretty powerful amp too, cause I'm guessing when you're just starting out you won't be playing venues with nice big foldback systems and so the drummer's gonna have to be able to hear the beats over his drums from your amp. Or he could wear headphones.

With the EMX you could write tracks on your own, save them and then bring them along to practice for the rest of the band to learn, which could be good if that's the way you want to do it. Cause you're singing it won't matter as much if you're not playing keyboard parts all the time so it won't necessarily matter that you don't have a fullsized keyboard in front of you. I've seen a couple of bands rock out on electribes, just playing parts on the pads and stuff, it was pretty cool.

With the R3 you won't be able to do the drums but you'll be able to play pads because of the polyphony, or chords of any sound. Chords through distortion sound pretty awesome IMO.

It really depends on what you want the band to sound like and how you plan on writing songs. If the rest of the band want you to play pads and stuff and don't like the sound of the drum track as well as the real drummer then you'll be better off with the R3, if they do, get the EMX.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by Johnny Lenin » Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:00 am

nbellum, as you can see, there are a lot of options, but don't get overwhelmed by them. My guess is that, whatever you choose, you'll be in for a good time. Stabby's advice is good -- think about how your imagine your role in the band to be. My own feeling -- for me --and probably only because I came at synths deom pianos and organs, is that the keyboard is king. But I had an ES-1 [the ancestor to the ESX] a few years ago, and that really opened my eyes and ears.

Still, I think of the Electribes primarily as beat instruments that can also do some pretty cool sound shaping and noise manipulating. The cool thing about the ESX is that it's a sampler and, if you hear a sound that you really like -- a brick flying through a plate glass window, a jackhammer, etc -- you can record it and then import it into the ESX and use it in your music. It is also a sequencer, so you can create sequences, connect them into songs, and so some cool things. On the other hand, it isn't really suited to melodic or harmonic playing without an external keyboard. On the other, other hand, you can always look for a combination controller/synth like the Novation X-Station, like stabby said, or Xiosynth, that can produce its own (polyphonic) sounds as well as control the ESX.

I do not own an X-Station or Xiosynth, so I can't say any more than they exist... though the Xiosynth sells for $300 new, and looks like a tempting deal to me.

What I will tell you is this: This is your first synth. There will be more as you get more deeper into music. You son't have to acquire all of your gear right now. Start with the one piece that's going to get you going, and a decent amp [many keyboard amps have at least two 1/4" input channels as well as an XLR input for a mic, as well as on-board effects]. Add other stuff as necessity and GAS require and as budget permits.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by Zamise » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:08 am

Just thought of something, will they be more prone to having the 60cycle ground hum on his mic and pedal setup like that? Prob something to worry about if it happens tho, that c**p pops up on me occasionly with my mics more often it seems when not going through a mixer or synth first.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by nbellum » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:09 pm

I still can't decide between the EMX-1 and the R3 or the Juno-D. Can someone just tell me which one to get. Keep in mind that this will be my first synth instrument and I probably won't be able to get another for a few months, so which one will keep me going.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by Johnny Lenin » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:34 pm

This is why it's sometimes a good idea to go to a music store. You can get the hands-on experience and decide which one sings to you. The thing is that the R3 and EMX are so different that it comes down to how you imagine yourself using the synth. In fact, they're quite complimentary in many ways, and together would make a great rig for your music...

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