Vox in industrial music

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by nbellum » Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:20 pm

Johnny Lenin wrote:This is why it's sometimes a good idea to go to a music store. You can get the hands-on experience and decide which one sings to you. The thing is that the R3 and EMX are so different that it comes down to how you imagine yourself using the synth. In fact, they're quite complimentary in many ways, and together would make a great rig for your music...
I would love to but if I had a music store with synths within 3 hours of here then I wouldn't be posting on this forum lol ... and trust me I spent half the day last weekend calling around.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by space6oy » Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:38 pm

none within 3 hours, where are you, alaska?
if you're up for that long of a drive you should be able to find a guitar center or a sam ash or someplace like that no problem.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by tallowwaters » Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:54 pm

Buy the R3 and the EMX, f**k the Juno.
Brains can be used like a "stress ball," but only once.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by Stab Frenzy » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:21 am

nbellum wrote:I still can't decide between the EMX-1 and the R3 or the Juno-D. Can someone just tell me which one to get. Keep in mind that this will be my first synth instrument and I probably won't be able to get another for a few months, so which one will keep me going.
Get the EMX now, that way you can make a whole track if you want, with drums and different synth parts. Later when you've saved a bit more money up you can get the R3 or whatever and add play synth parts over the tracks you've already sequenced. :thumbright:
tallowwaters wrote:Buy the R3 and the EMX, f**k the Juno.
Totally.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by nbellum » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:07 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:
nbellum wrote:I still can't decide between the EMX-1 and the R3 or the Juno-D. Can someone just tell me which one to get. Keep in mind that this will be my first synth instrument and I probably won't be able to get another for a few months, so which one will keep me going.
Get the EMX now, that way you can make a whole track if you want, with drums and different synth parts. Later when you've saved a bit more money up you can get the R3 or whatever and add play synth parts over the tracks you've already sequenced. :thumbright:
tallowwaters wrote:Buy the R3 and the EMX, f**k the Juno.
Totally.
Thank you. I will purchase the EMX-1.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by nvbrkr » Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:46 pm

1) let me just be the industrial elitist asshole and remind you first that those acts are not usually considered "industrial". They are EBM bands and basically the only industrial music subgenre that utilizes distorted vocals to a larger extent is power electronics, but onto the advice part...

2) your best shot is preamp distortion, just overdrive the pres of your mixer and then EQ it down with software. Amp modelers and most low cost distortion pedals will take too much presence away as they are designed for guitars. Usually quite a hefty amount of flanger works in a full mix, albeit it can sound a bit stupid if you just mute all the backing tracks and listen to the vocals alone that way. Other common tricks that I've learned from the power electronics end of things (and let's face it, PE is the EBM equivalent of experimental music), is to stack several of those vocal takes on top of each other and apply drastically different FX combinations on them. You can for instance add a gapper effect on one and add delay and reverb (you can do this with the freeware dfx destruction pack plugin for example). Compress the whole mess to your liking.

Most of those ABM acts do not indeed scream into the microphone. In fact many don't do more than sort of whisper and let the distotion handle the rest (i.e. Grendel etc.) - you can do all kinds of things with air pressure alone and since most of those guys probably live in apartment buildings that "vocal style" has become all the more common. I don't know what is en vogue in that end of "industrial" music these days to be honest.

Avoid digital distortion at all costs - not only does it sound pretty bad, it's usually not too easy to mix either.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by nbellum » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:35 pm

Well I ended up picking up a Korg DW-8000 off E-bay for 305 USD and a Roland KC-150 for 200 USD both in awesome condition. I hope I got a good deal. As far as the vocals go, could you give me a more straightforward answer, like "this is exactly how it's done" and what type of effects processors I need?

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by Johnny Lenin » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:08 am

The DW800 is a great board. You can make some really good noise with it. While it doesn't give you knobby controls, it does have a very nice analog filter. It's polyphonic, so you can do chords, but it can also produce some screaming leads in unison mode. @ $300 seems to be the going rate for them on eBay. And $200 for the KC-150 seems like a good deal. I like the Roland amps. It has an XLR mic input as well, and 60w should be enough for jaming and small gigs.
Last edited by Johnny Lenin on Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by Stab Frenzy » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:23 am

nbellum wrote:As far as the vocals go, could you give me a more straightforward answer, like "this is exactly how it's done" and what type of effects processors I need?
No, nobody can do that for you because there's more than one way to do it. You've been given lots of suggestions, why not try them all out and see what you like the best? Use software to begin with and then when you figure out what you like you can think about whether or not you want to buy hardware effects.

It takes years to find your musical voice and what effects/instruments/processes are best for you, just get something, start, and you'll hone it over time. :thumbright:

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by nbellum » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:24 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:
nbellum wrote:As far as the vocals go, could you give me a more straightforward answer, like "this is exactly how it's done" and what type of effects processors I need?
No, nobody can do that for you because there's more than one way to do it. You've been given lots of suggestions, why not try them all out and see what you like the best? Use software to begin with and then when you figure out what you like you can think about whether or not you want to buy hardware effects.

It takes years to find your musical voice and what effects/instruments/processes are best for you, just get something, start, and you'll hone it over time. :thumbright:
Ok thanks. I already tried adjusting the EQ and adding chorus and reverb and it was still just my voice with a high mid, chorus, and reverb.. and delay. I guess I will try some other things. This is on FL Studio. I also tried adding a compressor but that didn't seem to do anything at all.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by redroomrecordings » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:13 am

once again, your voice shouldnt sound THAT far off from the finished sound even in a dry signal. work on the tone of your voice so you can get to a point where effects add to it but dont totally change it.

and when using the chorus, don't be shy, this is one case where you can adjust the setting pretty high to a point where it is pitching your voice quickly.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by nbellum » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:42 am

What would be a good hardware device for adding effects to my voice, could a mixer do that? I'm talking like (chorus, reverb etc..) plugging the mic into a mixer and then the mixer into the PA or would I use an effects box? If an effects box what kind/type and could you recommend some.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by Johnny Lenin » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:53 am

nbellum wrote:What would be a good hardware device for adding effects to my voice, could a mixer do that? I'm talking like (chorus, reverb etc..) plugging the mic into a mixer and then the mixer into the PA or would I use an effects box? If an effects box what kind/type and could you recommend some.
Many mixers have onboard effects -- usually spatial effects like reverb, delay and chorus. You can find inexpensive, reasonably effective 6-8-channel mixers for less than $100. They're not studio quality, but they work. [The Behringer Xenix and Alesis MultiMix 6FX leap to mind]

You can also get multi-effects processors. The Behringer Virtualizer Pro is cheap and actually has some good useable effects, and you can chain them, too. The reverb is pretty digital sounding, but for starting out and playing live, it could work. You could patch this into the PA either in the effects loop or direct from your mic.

And there are vocal effects pedals out there like the Digitech vocal series. I haven't used one, but I actually quite like Digitech effects. This would sit between your mic and the PA.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by Stab Frenzy » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:04 am

Adding a mixer and hardware chorus, reverb etc is going to sound pretty much the same as doing it in software so I'd wait a bit before thinking about spending money on hardware. Just keep messing around with different effects in FL until you work out what you want. You should also try multitracking your vocals, that is recording the same thing a few times and layering them on top of one another, as has been suggested already. I reckon maybe you should download Camel Crusher, it's free and it might be a bit closer to what you want.

Effects aren't magic, they aren't gonna make your voice completely different all of a sudden. Take redroom's advice and start trying to change the way you sing before it goes through any effects to get closer to the sound you want.

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Re: Vox in industrial music

Post by Yoozer » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:26 pm

nbellum wrote:This is on FL Studio.
Great! Now, go try out FL Studio's Blood distortion and Fast Distortion. And these things: http://www.simulanalog.org/guitarsuite.htm
I also tried adding a compressor but that didn't seem to do anything at all.
A compressor is the most misunderstood, poorly applied device of pretty much everything out there.

The human voice is very dynamic - e.g. you can whisper and scream. An audio compressor can reduce this range; it'll make the whisper just as loud. This is obviously great for radio stations; if you had someone barging in while listening to a classical music program uttering bloodcurdling screams, the compressors take care of it and make it no louder than the rest of the music (obviously, at a sacrifice of both volume levels, reducing both scream and music). This is also great for performing on stage; when you're out of breath, whispering, you don't have to force your voice to be loud; the compressor will do it. Likewise, screaming won't deafen the audience. A compressor can also act as a Stooge - reducing an audio track's volume by hitting it on the head when another audio track gets above a certain level. This is called sidechaining.

FL Studio has a bunch of compressors. Test it using a dynamic (classical!) piece of music; see what happens when you put the ratio at 1:15 and then start modifying the attack and release. Take your time to listen and study the differences. It's pretty much useless to try out compressors on any material on CD made after 1990 or so, because those are already compressed to h**l and back.

The reason you want to use it is because you're working with vocals and because it means you can control the amount of distortion better; when the volume of your voice stays below the level the distortion needs to kick in, not much will happen.

Other neat hints: record your voice as a sample and transpose it up and down while retaining the duration (also called timestretching). This way you'll turn your voice into a chord, which gives you a kind of monster voice. Furthermore, try putting a distortion after a short reverb on your voice.
"Part of an instrument is what it can do, and part of it is what you do to it" - Suzanne Ciani, 197x.

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