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Re: Questions on first synth, research done but still have Q's

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:03 am
by Joey
the ER1 is not very good for industrial... you should stick to the EA1 and ES1

Re: Questions on first synth, research done but still have Q's

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:26 am
by killedaway
Joey wrote:the ER1 is not very good for industrial... you should stick to the EA1 and ES1
well, it's excellent for secondary drum sounds (weird fizzy hits, noises, random insanity), but yeah, it wouldn't do well as your primary beat machine.

Re: Questions on first synth, research done but still have Q's

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:39 am
by Racerhead
Thanks Joey and killedaway,

I emailed the two sellers, I found an ES-1 for $200 Canadian so I'll wait to hear back. As for the EA-1, there are none on Ebay so if this guy has sold it I will have to keep looking or go for the above other plan of something like an SH-201 with an ES-1 (Lot's on Ebay if the one in Canada is sold, the Ebay sellers won't sell to Canada but I can get my buddy in the US to buy for me).

Back to reading up on these units and watching Youtube demos. (From what I have heard so far, these are quite the nasty machines, nasty in a good way)! Plus looking through this board and other forums for info, hopefully I'm done pestering you all with Q's. You've all been so generous with your time and knowledge, and I know how precious time is spent helping people on forums! Take care,

Ayr

Re: Questions on first synth, research done but still have Q's

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:01 am
by killedaway
no worries at all. heck, this is part of what makes the forums fun. i'm just glad when someone is nice enough to respond back. we usually just get a bunch of one-hit-wonders, who ask for advice on what to buy, get a dozen well-reasoned responses, and never even say thanks.

if you do get one or more of the 'tribes, report back in and tell how you're getting along (or if you need any help/tips of course). good luck again!

Re: Questions on first synth, research done but still have Q's

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:18 am
by Johnny Lenin
C$350 for an ES-1 seems steep to me, C$200 makes more sense. They go for @ US$150 on eBay, and I've seen them for US$100 on Craigslist. I've seen ESXs sell for US$350 on eBay. Having said that, I think an ES would be great for your uses. The SH-201, too, as long as you go in with your eyes open. It's not a great synth [limited user memory locations, fairly cheap build quality, sort of cold-dry digital sound]. But it is a great synth to learn on, since the controls are very well laid-out. And it has a pretty good selection of waveforms, external audio input [RCA jacks?!], and quite usable onboard delay and reverb. It is not the be-all and end-all synth, by any stretch, and it is and instrument that you will grow out of. But part of that is because you will learn a whole lot about subtractive synthesis from it and, in a year or so, you'll want more.

Re: Questions on first synth, research done but still have Q's

Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:52 am
by Racerhead
Thanks killedaway, I was worried to ask questions as I do see a lot of people ask then never come back to the forums they post on or say thanks. I also don't want to be seen as a lazy, annoying git. Thanks for letting me know that you do enjoy helping out newbies.

Johnny, $350 is way too much I now realize, then I realized something else.. How do I buy off of Craigslist from another province? DUH on my part. I would have to send a money order and hope the person is legit and will send the goods. Or if they have PayPal figure out something along that route, but they could still get paid through PayPal and not send the item. So I thought about it and my endless ruminations are below.

Ok, I did a bunch more reading up and watched quite a few videos of people using the various Electribes, both the older and the newer models.

I got confused again, (Oh joy, I see the eyeballs rolling :wink: ) because in most of the videos I see people using the Electribes with no keyboards, and many just using the EA-1 or EMX-1 with no other peripherals.

I did see a few vids with keyboards, but they were mostly not played other than a few knobs being tweaked on the keyboard as the Electribe did it's thing. One video I viewed did have a guy playing along, I am thinking a keyboard is good for playing piano or strings along with the 'tribe. This is something I have heard in a lot of the non-industrial music I listen to such as Assemblage 23, VNV Nation, Seabound, in strict confidence, and other bands that would be classified as EBM, synthpop, I'm-not-sure-I-just-like-it, etc. I don't even know what genre to label those bands. Gad.

In any case, I was curious about what else a keyboard would be used as with the 'tribes? I am curious as I can't find an EA-1 so I was thinking of getting an EMX-1, then getting an ES-1 off of ebay to go with it. OR get an SH-201 and then an ES-1. The SH-201 goes for about the same price as the EMX-1 new, so I would be using my gift certificates towards either unit.

I guess to summarize I looked online but couldn't find an answer no matter what I Googled. Since the EMX-1 (or EA-1) are effectively synths then one could be used instead of a synth with keys. I see people used the buttons at the bottom of the 'tribes as "keys" although there are not very many of them! If I get the EMX-1 I can add a midi keyboard later, although I think it would only control the 'tribes as it can't produce it's own sound. Or a keyed synth (SH-201) that can be played along with the 'tribes, but could be limiting as I could only afford one synth and the ES-1. I can keep looking a bit later when I have some money saved up, sometime over the months a used better than the 201 keyed synth should come up, no matter how hard it is to find them local right now. That would make, in the long run, owning an EMX-1, an ES-1, and eventually a synth with keys. Does this sound like the best route to take as I will eventually not need the SH-201, but the EMX-1 will be kept? Or go with the SH-201 and ES-1?

Since I have already decided to go the Electribe route (unless I get something like the SH-201 and add an ES-1 if advised to) this should be the last question about buying gear. I hope!! Sorry again to ask Q's that probably have an answer somewhere, I'm just having a hard time wrapping my mind around exactly how these wicked little units work. I don't want to be some "Give me all the answers I don't wanna research" troll.

Oh to add a last note if going with a keyed synth and the older 'tribe, the R3 was mentioned as being harder to use, but it might have better sounds. I could get the R3 instead of the SH-201 (then add the ES-1 as above). Or does the R3 still involve too much menu diving for now?

Take care, and, happy New Year everyone! (Where did the entire last one go)?

Ayr -blah blah blah...

Re: Questions on first synth, research done but still have Q's

Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:07 pm
by Yoozer
Racerhead wrote:Or, get the ES-1 and then get an SH-201 with $300 of the gift certificate money going toward it then there is less cash out on top of the $350 I got for Christmas, and no need to buy a midi keyboard.
Reason I wouldn't get the EA-1 is because it's not that much of a synth, actually. The SH-201 - well, you have to use the split option (it's not truly bi/multitimbral) but then you could put the bass on the left and the melody/chords on the right - you can't do any chords at all with the EA. With the ES-1 you could even resample the sounds of the SH-201 - it's just much more you can get out of it synthwise than you can get out of an EA.
Of course for $250 obo the EA-1 sounds like a good deal
They're sold here left and right for 100-125 euros, so even with the conversion it doesn't sound that good :(.

Re: Questions on first synth, research done but still have Q's

Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:12 pm
by otto
The EA-1 has a sequencer in it and that is primarily how you would use it. It is also mono or duophonic and limited. Don't get me wrong an EA-1 would be fun, but for the long haul I think your better off getting the ES-1 and a keyboard synth. The EA-1 is cheap and common enough you could always get one later. I think the R3 or SH-201 would be a good choice. If you can try them out just go mess around with each and see which appeals to you more.

Re: Questions on first synth, research done but still have Q's

Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:39 am
by Racerhead
Thanks again guys,

Hi Yoozer, thanks for the info on the EA-1 VS. the SH-201! The reason $250 seemed like a good deal is because in Canada it is very hard to find them, even on ebay in the US they seem to be scarce. $250 Canadian = about $146 Euros, which is higher than what you guys can get them for, but it seems beggars can't be choosers here in North America :( Even the ES-1's are going for about $175 US on Ebay from what I have been watching. Sometimes it hurts to bend over around these 'parts :lol: In any case you never know when an EA-1 will come up over time that I can get, since it will be a much later purchase since I'll be going with a synth with a keyboard and the ES-1 for now. (If I keep looking I could very well be wrong on how scarce the EA-1'S are).

Hi Otto, thanks for the info on which of the options I listed would be the best way to go! Well, with the EA-1 and EMX out of the picture I can grab an SH-210 or R3 (I see the Novations going for cheap but I haven't done any research on them). Get to know the synth well, then grab an ES-1 off of Ebay when one comes up at a decent price, or more likely, when I can afford one since people are snapping these up like crazy.

I did try the SH-201, and a Micron and I liked the Micron's sound better, but I need to try an R3. There are a number of budget synths but it comes down to which one is easiest to learn, and has the sounds I need or like. I'll go back to the music store tomorrow and play around some more.

Thanks again all, I'll report back with which synth I get, and see what I have left money wise to see if I can get an ES-1 this month or if I have to wait until the end of January. Take care,

Ayr

Re: Questions on first synth, research done but still have Q's

Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:12 pm
by sacredcow
If you want to make the most of your budget, stay away from new gear. Used gear, so long as it's working doesn't really lose value when you buy it, so if you f**k up and get the wrong thing, recovering the vast majority of your investment by resale is almost always possible, whereas with new gear, if you don't dig what you buy after a few weeks, it's already lost a significant portion of it's value. It's just something to think about when first buying gear, because it's hard to know exactly what you want and need at first. You'll assemble the best setup, imo, not by necessarily doing really really extensive research beforehand, but by evaluating what you use and don't use and need in your actual setup once you have gear. Some gear might have good specs on paper, but won't see any use for other reasons like a confuzzling interface, which is something you'll probably find to be pretty important.

Also, I second the EA-1 ES-1 setup x2349234902345
I love these two together. I had both before, then sold, terribly regretted the sale of, and rebought both of them. They now see a ton of use. They are a godsend for electronic-music-experimenting people on a budget and produce an even greater kind of synergistic joy when used together.

Re: Questions on first synth, research done but still have Q's

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:14 am
by Racerhead
Hi Sacredcow, and anyone else still reading this,

I just did my usual check all the ads daily routine, and a Juno-106 popped up local. The guy/gal is looking for trades so I am not sure if they will take cash (Then again, not many people would turn down cash)! Because they are looking at trades they did not list a price, so I emailed him/her. I have been looking at prices, and from what I have seen about just under $500 Canadian would probably be a fair price? If it is working great at time of sale that is.

My biggest concern is all the units I read about that have their voice chips crapping out, however I see a guy in England is selling clones of these chips.

I will see if I hear back and what info may be provided. Here's hoping for the best :wink:

Ayr

Re: Questions on first synth, research done but still have Q's

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:02 am
by Racerhead
Ok, I have heard back from the fellow selling the Juno-106.

He prefers to make a trade, but if I would like I can make him an offer. I was hoping he would state a price but no go.

So now I have YET another question to ask. I know the 106's have the chip issue, however here is a link to the ad to see pics of the unit: http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell ... dZ97036492

The reply I got back was: "There were only a few bad chip lots, so not all Junos have the dead voice chip problem. This unit has never needed a repair. I tested the voices, and all 6 are working 100%. Considering it's almost 24 years old, it seems to be a pretty solid machine and everything still works as new. Sound is nice and clean. All original buttons and sliders - nothing missing.

I prefer to trade for something (easier that way) but if you make an offer I will consider it."


From what I have seen, the 106's in working shape go up to $500 US, with $300-$350 being a typical amount. I don't want to make too high an offer, but I don't want to seem like I am low balling him.

I was thinking around $400 Canadian, is that too much or too little for this particular Juno? I am thinking it is too little, but so far I have been thinking high prices are actually good deals so I can't trust my judgment on pricing out equipment! :oops: Is the 106 too much of a gamble? My other half is good at soldering so he could easily replace the chips if/when they do go, however I have heard they can just go again anytime.

Sorry again for all the Q's but the vintage synths are a whole new category for me, no warranty and they could die one day after you buy one. My biggest concern of course.

If anyone can help me out with this once again I would be very grateful. I need to send a PayPal donation in for all the info I am getting here for free! Take care,

Ayr

Re: Questions on first synth, research done but still have Q's

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:05 am
by Joey
my juno has not failed me yet

but i wouldnt be suprised if that guy was full of c**p with that statistic

Re: Questions on first synth, research done but still have Q's

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:00 pm
by Yoozer
Racerhead wrote: Sorry again for all the Q's but the vintage synths are a whole new category for me
Then don't go that route yet and get the 201. They're going to be more useful and more fun, trust me on that. I've had the JP8080, Juno-106, and I still have the '60 and the Alpha Juno 1.

The 106's price is high because it's the cheapest synth with sliders and MIDI you can get. This however also means that you're stuck with a single-oscillator single-envelope machine where the noisy chorus is the biggest asset.

Re: Questions on first synth, research done but still have Q's

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:14 am
by Johnny Lenin
Yoozer wrote:Then don't go that route yet and get the 201. They're going to be more useful and more fun, trust me on that.
Yoozer is right. Your first synth won't be your last. Get something reliable and strightfprward to learn synthesis on and save your pennies for a vintage synth if that's the way you want to go. There's a lot to be said for getting something that you can play without maintenance headaches. The SH-201's main virtues are that it's great to start on, very reliable and cheap. They seem to be going for US$350 on eBay these days.