why macbooks?

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aredj
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Re: why macbooks?

Post by aredj » Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:35 pm

Joey wrote:
try using any motu hardware on a pc
I've been doing it for years with out any problems... (timepiece ala parallel and 828mk2)
then again, I'm also a computer tech, so I know how to massage kinks out. Then again.. never had any with motu.

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Re: why macbooks?

Post by snsr » Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:45 pm

I'll weigh in here - I work as a developer and designer all day on a Mac, in an all-Mac shop. I've been using PCs at home since I was knee-high.

OSX is simple and elegant. Vista is not as simple, but it's faster and looks better.
Vista has annoying security dialogs.

It's a fallacy that there is a software or "compatibility" advantage for Mac OSX - other than Logic, I think you'll find that there is just as much, if not more, software for Windows. (Which, incidentally, you can also run on a Mac.) MOTU hardware works fine in my studio on Vista 64. So does Live, Komplete, Plogue Bidule, MAX/Msp, etc.

From a hardware perspective: New Mac (laptop) hardware is garbage not made like it used to be. In some cases. Many (most?) PC vendors' hardware is also garbage (Compaq/low-end HPs are absolute s**t.) My personal first-gen MBP has been back to Apple a few times (two new LCDs, two new logic boards, new motherboard, wifi, etc. It has also been returned broken in new ways two of those times.) My Thinkpad T60p has been back to Lenovo zero times, and it gets used/transported much more frequently. New Thinkpads have better screens than Mac Books (though not necessarily at a lower price point.) They also have nicer keyboards. Thinkpads are also black.

On the other hand, open up a Mac Pro and be amazed. Beautifully designed for non-skilled access. Ridiculous and difficult to modify anything that Apple doesn't think you should. This is an appropriate metaphor for all things Apple, if you ask me.

I think the sweet spot for Mac hardware right now is the Mac Pro - building your own costs about the same. They're also nearing EOL, though, so be warned. Apple Store refurbs are a steal.
Last edited by snsr on Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: why macbooks?

Post by JSRockit » Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:01 pm

snsr wrote:
From a hardware perspective: New Mac (laptop) hardware is garbage. Many (most?) PC vendors' hardware is also garbage (Compaq/low-end HPs are absolute s**t.) My personal first-gen MBP has been back to Apple FOUR TIMES (two new LCDs, two new logic boards, new motherboard, wifi, etc. It has also been returned broken in new ways two of those times.) My Thinkpad T60p has been back to Lenovo ZERO times, and it gets used/transported much more frequently. New Thinkpads have better screens than Mac Books (though not necessarily at a lower price point.) They also have nicer keyboards. Thinkpads are also black.
Well, are you basing that off of one laptop? I've had two first gen macbooks with no issues at all. Also, now have a macbook pro which is wonderful. On the flipside I have had many PC laptops that have been rock solid. It comes down to the OS for me...

You are right about PC screens though... Apple always cheaps out on their low-end laptop screens.
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Re: why macbooks?

Post by snsr » Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:40 pm

JSRockit wrote: Well, are you basing that off of one laptop? I've had two first gen macbooks with no issues at all. Also, now have a macbook pro which is wonderful. On the flipside I have had many PC laptops that have been rock solid. It comes down to the OS for me...

You are right about PC screens though... Apple always cheaps out on their low-end laptop screens.
Yes, my opinion is based on my notebook. Maybe that came across as being overly harsh - it is a damn sexy piece of gear. Too bad it doesn't come in black. Mine is a first generation, hot-off-the-press MBP, though, so I'm sure many issues have been sorted since then. I have a dual-1GHz G4 tower that is still running as well as it did the first day it came out of the box. Shoot, I have a Macintosh SE and a IIc that both still run as well as they did the day they were born. I guess they just don't make 'em like they used to :)

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Re: why macbooks?

Post by OriginalJambo » Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:50 pm

snsr wrote:I guess they just don't make 'em like they used to :)
True dat. :)

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Re: why macbooks?

Post by schmidtc » Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:22 am

i converted to a macbook and haven't looked back. Yes, a PC can do anything a mac can. Macs generally retain their value and usually offer better support. I pick up another one on craigslist a week ago for $700. It wasn't on warranty or even registered to me, and apple hooked me up with a free keyboard/mouse assembly no questions asked so it looks like new. The built in jacks sounds better than any PC I've tried. I've got some friends beta testing Windows 7 that say great things though.

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Re: why macbooks?

Post by JSRockit » Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:52 am

schmidtc wrote:The built in jacks sounds better than any PC I've tried.
This is true, anyone know why?
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Re: why macbooks?

Post by OriginalJambo » Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:28 am

JSRockit wrote:This is true, anyone know why?
Better built-in sound card perhaps? Your standard PC on-board offerings (Realtek AC97s and the like) aren't exactly fantastic.

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Re: why macbooks?

Post by otto » Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:43 am

Gotta love the mac vs pc threads. Seriously though, a Mac is like buying an audi, volvo, BMW, etc. They aren't the fastest, most reliable, etc. spec for spec you can find an equivelant or better japanese car for cheaper. What they usually offer is better styling that appeals to people. There's nothing wrong with buying design. I applaud JS for being honest. He bought it cause it looks cool. That's why I would buy one if I felt like dropping that much cash on a computer... At this point in time all the rest is bullshit...
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Re: why macbooks?

Post by Ashe37 » Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:00 am

OriginalJambo wrote:
JSRockit wrote:This is true, anyone know why?
Better built-in sound card perhaps? Your standard PC on-board offerings (Realtek AC97s and the like) aren't exactly fantastic.
Exactly. and this is why Creative has started pushing their AC '97-compatible motherboard sound chip... of course, it will be awhile before it gets put in a laptop.

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Re: why macbooks?

Post by JSRockit » Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:17 pm

It has to go beyond the sound card no? I mean, the way apple handles audio in their system is completely different to PCs right?
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Re: why macbooks?

Post by WhinyLittleRunt » Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:10 pm

I agree about the mac hardware being pretty sub-par, but as a mac technician I think I have a right to say that. I absolutely love my macbook, and before that my mac mini and before that my G4, etc... What people never seem to take into consideration is that your $2K MacBook Pro is built and QC'd by the same people in China that build your $300 Dell Inspiron. Apple doesn't manufacture in California anymore. Anyone remember a few years back when every iMac and eMac produced within a certain period would just die? Apple tried to save a few pennies on capacitors and built all the boards for both of those models with c**p ones and they all exploded. That was fun for a good 3 years of recalled repairs.

What I mean by "sub par hardware" really has nothing to do with the actual specs of the machine and what it can do. Their board designs are awkward, repairs are usually difficult and they sometimes, like stated above, use some shitty version of a component that they might have literally saved .02 cents on and it goes bad out of the blue one day. I want to say Apple never learns their lesson, but then again how will they know the effects of the components without benchtesting a product for over a year? By then the technology is outdated so it's a no win situation.

On the flip side of things, a Mac makes a great 'no-virus' pr0n machine :) And ladies, watch out with Photo Booth... don't forget to erase those self portraits before bringing it in for service. The computer technicians like to look at b**b. :lol:
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Re: why macbooks?

Post by D-Collector » Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:24 pm

I don't know that much about Mac, other than having tried a macbook in a store. Also my neighbour who owns and runs a recording studio has a PowerMac G5. I help him out from time to time with Reason and other software and I am getting quite familiar with the machine. But I have to say it isn't very stable. Actually it has crashed at least once every time I have been there.

On the other side, I have used PCs on a large basis since 1996 and know my way around them. I have owned several desktops and laptops and have NEVER had a serious problem with any of them. The only serious problem I can think of is when my GeForce MX420 (or something) crapped out in 2003. It all boils down to how you use it, if you put too much s**t in and screw up the drivers you will pay. I still have an Asus laptop from 1997 which is going strong. I use it mainly as a librarian for my synths now, but occasionally as a midi sequencer too. It has survived falling down the stairs several times without any problems. Very solid piece of hardware, and extremely stable in software. (First off the shelf and then down the stairs) Not intentionally though :lol:

The PC I'm writing this on is my newest and the one I use daily (XP, 1,8 Ghz, 1024 RAM, SB Live! from 1999). I built it in 2003 and have since only upgraded the RAM. It is still lightyears faster than my dads NEW Acer tower pc. It runs Reason 4, Orion, and every other type of music software I have tried without probems. Generally I have paid very little for my PCs, but ended up more than happy with them. If I have to put my finger on something it must be that the operating systems are getting worse, and Vista is c**p. However, XP is running very good and music software friendly after "modifying" the list of background services and processes.

Long post, but my point is if you know what you are doing you will most likely stay out of trouble, either it is PC or Mac.

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Re: why macbooks?

Post by JSRockit » Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:31 pm

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Re: why macbooks?

Post by snsr » Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:30 pm

JSRockit wrote:It has to go beyond the sound card no? I mean, the way apple handles audio in their system is completely different to PCs right?
Different, yes, but superior? Probably not - Apple uses Core Audio / Audio Hardware Abstraction Layer, Vista uses UAA. I think sound quality in the digital domain has more to do with what's creating the signals, and with your D/A converter, than it does the routing used to get the signal there.

As far as D/A converters go, new Macs are PCs. I believe Macbook/Pros have the same Intel ICH7 Integrated Audio / Sigmatel HD Audio combo that most other laptops have.

One nice addition to that, though, is the dual-purpose 1/8" headphone jack that can be used as optical-out, so you can use your own D/A and avoid interference/noise from the cpu/video/etc. Which is cool.

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