Synth sellers will soon need to drop their prices.

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sensorium
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Synth sellers will soon need to drop their prices.

Post by sensorium » Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:37 pm

I have been noticing a lot of things not selling on ebay recently, only to be re-listed at the same price. As any manufacturer does in times like this, we must establish new (lower) selling prices. Synth prices were sky high because we were all living in overvalued economies. Those days are over.

I've read posts of people saying that they are going to hold off on selling some of their stuff until the economy recovers. Those people will we waiting for a LONG TIME. This market crash will not be followed by a huge upswing like others we've had. The market simply corrected itself to the ACTUAL value it would have had before all of the corporate cheating/schemes pushed 30-1 returns. Those types of fake returns/growth are gone forever, therefore waiting for things to return to "normal" will be in vain.

Tie in the industrialization of China and India, and we have a worldwide re-distribution of wealth like we've never seen before. The days of Europeans and Americans having money to burn are over. Time to start selling synths at reasonable prices again.....like 50% off!

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Re: Synth sellers will soon need to drop their prices.

Post by wiss » Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:59 pm

I disagree......my job is not in risk anymore and I can go back to spending what ever I want.

I know a lot of other people who were in the same situation as I was. I've not been buying because I have chosen to take biweekly weekend get aways instead. I'm waiting patiently for LinnDrum II and nothing else at this point has me lusting.

I will agree more deals can be found right now for those whom are finical stressed.

With actors looking like they are going to strike, LA craigslist is going to be a gold mine for great deals....
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Re: Synth sellers will soon need to drop their prices.

Post by 23 » Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:16 pm

All things considered, synth prices are still at one of their lowest prices EVER.

The hardware synth market began taking a major hit with the maturing of VSTi (and it's early on twin DXi) and such.
I don't see how much lower the lower end pieces could go really, they are already DAMN low. Similarly, I'm really not all that certain of how much lower some of the mid and higher end pieces could go.

I had gone over in here recently how when using numerous inflation calculations (such as the CPI) the Future-Retro XS was really no more expensive then the Future-Retro 777. Thus, if the selling value is unchanged, but, sequencer aside, the feature set vastly upped.....I mean how much lower can prices really go?

Similarly, the used market is already filled with deflated values.

I'm not all that certain that there is much moving room here for manufacturers unless their production cost drop down or they simply scale back the power and/or depth of what it is they are producing.

If anything, I think the used market may end up showing continued drops in pricing (and it has), as well, people can be forced into underselling much more easily. If a man gets desperate enough, he might half the price he bought something for. However, on a manufacturing end, as I noted, there are other factors at play; and if their production cost (amongst other things) aren't dropping, what can they really do?
As stands, I think many would be shocked at exactly HOW LITTLE the markup is that (new gear) sellers are able to place on things; most notably on the higher end gear.

Oddly enough, it seems to me that no matter how much overall gear prices drop, regardless of economic state, people continue to complain about how expensive gear is.
One thing I do know, once inflation is factored in, it'd be unfeasible for me to own the amount of synths and caliber of synths I currently own back in 92, 87, and I won't even bother thinking of the 70s. The reason I can own what I own and have the degree of ownership I do is directly reflective of exactly how much prices have dropped.

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Re: Synth sellers will soon need to drop their prices.

Post by StepLogik » Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:46 pm

I think you will have some deflation as the US banks start to withdraw the amount of credit available to consumers. Americans are not going to have as much purchasing power as they did before. The days of living a wealthy lifestyle on false home equity value are over. However, for the rest of the world, I'm not sure how its going to pan out. There is definitely going to be major redistribution of wealth from America and Europe to Asia and India.

Vintage pieces, however, will continue to rise in value imo. 909's, 303's, 101's, JP-8's, Moogs, etc will only continue to increase in value.

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Re: Synth sellers will soon need to drop their prices.

Post by Phollop Willing PA » Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:48 pm

I too, disagree. I've had tremendous luck finding good deals, but I'm patient and vigilant. If something doesn't sell, it's not worth buying anyway (for all sorts of reasons). Besides, Chinese manufactured synths will always be inexpensive.

The one glaring exception for me though, is Moog. Please, please, please half all the prices for all your products!
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Re: Synth sellers will soon need to drop their prices.

Post by sensorium » Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:52 pm

wiss wrote:I disagree......my job is not in risk anymore and I can go back to spending what ever I want.

Yes, of course! Since YOUR job is secure, then the market should SURELY ignore the 15-20% unemployment rates many counties are reporting! :lol:

Also, for clarification, I was mainly referring to vintage synth (ebay) prices. $7K Jupiter 8's, $4k Model-D's etc... ridiculous. I should have specified that in the original post.

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Re: Synth sellers will soon need to drop their prices.

Post by Phollop Willing PA » Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:00 pm

It's always a balance between selling and buying. If I value, say a Yamaha CS 40M at $900 CDN and I try to sell it and no one wants to pay more than $500 CDN, then I simply won't sell it.

I don't come across CS 40Ms often and I might as well clear room (in the studio) for it and use it myself, patched in with a Moog CP251 and a Voyager. In fact, I would rather use it as doorstop, give it to a nephew or neice, than sell it for $500 CDN.

Some of these vintage stuff, you simply can't find anywhere, and if you do come across a treasure, buy it if you can (and want to).
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Re: Synth sellers will soon need to drop their prices.

Post by otto » Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:13 pm

Prices have already dropped. TB-303's sell for half what they were only months ago. That has trickled down to SH-101s and x0xb0xs that sell for hundred less than they were only months ago. I've noticed the big analog polys have dropped a little as well. I think you are already seeing what your asking for but maybe your expectations are a pipe dream.

The thing is you really don't know how long this will last, what the market will do, etc. You might be kicking yourself for not buying now rather than waiting and hoping for the price to continue to drop.
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Re: Synth sellers will soon need to drop their prices.

Post by hyphen nation » Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:19 pm

I do think that prices are dropping, or stuff is staying listed a lot longer on craigslist...I have watch the usual used selling price of an MEK go from $850-900 to $750 is the new standard so it seems...I think Phollop Willing PA summed it up...it is kind of like the house market...I was shopping for one a year ago, and everything still seemed over inflated...My wife and I are just starting to shop again, and it seems that it took a year for home owners to come to jeezus and realize that if you want to sell in this market you either need to lower your price, or decide not to sell...

It kind of depends on sellers motivations? IF they want to sell it fast, they will price it low to get it out...if they don't care,they will keep re-listing and re-listing it....or doing a long slow incremental price drop...instead of just being realistic and pricing low to make it move...

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Re: Synth sellers will soon need to drop their prices.

Post by guitarsandsynths » Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:22 pm

I'll buy some of yours at 50% off! :D
sensorium wrote:I have been noticing a lot of things not selling on ebay recently, only to be re-listed at the same price. As any manufacturer does in times like this, we must establish new (lower) selling prices. Synth prices were sky high because we were all living in overvalued economies. Those days are over.

I've read posts of people saying that they are going to hold off on selling some of their stuff until the economy recovers. Those people will we waiting for a LONG TIME. This market crash will not be followed by a huge upswing like others we've had. The market simply corrected itself to the ACTUAL value it would have had before all of the corporate cheating/schemes pushed 30-1 returns. Those types of fake returns/growth are gone forever, therefore waiting for things to return to "normal" will be in vain.

Tie in the industrialization of China and India, and we have a worldwide re-distribution of wealth like we've never seen before. The days of Europeans and Americans having money to burn are over. Time to start selling synths at reasonable prices again.....like 50% off!
Minimoog ModelD Prophet5 Roland Jupiter8 SH7 GR9 CSQ100 TR606 TR707 TR727 Oberheim OB8 ARP2600 KorgVC10 Rhodes73 Wurlitzer 200A ClavinetII DOTCOM PearlDRX1 TamaTS202 Simmons SDS9

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Re: Synth sellers will soon need to drop their prices.

Post by Hybrid88 » Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:27 pm

Yes, I think market prices of new synths are going to have to be reduced, and especially in Australia we desperately need a retailer with actual competative prices, all we seem to have is an assortment of stores, mostly selling the same products (ie. Roland/Korg and very little moog/DSI), and who only seem to sell their stuff at retail. There is only a couple of places that consistently have decent prices, considering the profit margin I assume they have, a few more low price sales or, even better, consistently lower prices would not go unnoticed by musicians and producers.

Vintage, however seems only to rise, perhaps steady at best, I would be very, very suprised if the second-hand market of vintage synths drops. I think, perhaps the best thing you can hope for is a steadying in prices of the Arps/Moog/Jupiters and perhaps a slight reduction in the lower end market, ie the DX7's, D50, M1, Akai's etc. But I wouldn't be surprised if there is no change or even a continued rise, the demend is still there for vintage and as long as it is, prices will rise.

As far as new gear goes, I think we need a petition to get on to these bloody retailers in Aus :evil:

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Re: Synth sellers will soon need to drop their prices.

Post by nathanscribe » Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:28 pm

Meanwhile, due to heavily devalued currency, we in the UK (don't know about elsewhere) are now faced with much higher prices for lots of gear in the shops: £700 plus for a Nord 2X rack, which was £500 till recently - the MoogerFoogers have gone up, particularly the 104Z, which went from £300 to over £400. Boss pedals have shot up too - I was all set to buy a MT-2 for about £50 but a couple of days on it was £70. The Moog LP was £750, now it's just short of a grand...

... as for used prices, well, I'm no economist. I'll just save up till I can get stuff, and if I can't, so be it.


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Re: Synth sellers will soon need to drop their prices.

Post by guitarsandsynths » Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:46 pm

hfinn wrote:Really, we shouldn't complain....

http://completed.shop.ebay.com/items/Mu ... 000&_udhi=
That's why I got into synths!!!! :lol:
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Re: Synth sellers will soon need to drop their prices.

Post by stikygum » Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:33 am

So with those guitars it's either owning a guitar or a car ... hmmmm..... The only people buying those and will ever buy those is the peeps in Hollywood or in the music business. Do you guys realize how much money those people make? Tons and tons of money that basically they're neck deep in. I'm serious, they can basically buy whatever they want because of the kind of dough they make.

I think the OP is mainly talking about ebay prices though, not new prices from companys. Those guys on ebay I've seen them list the same synth over and over and over for the same price. I actually saw some decrease some of the prices, but still not enough. They don't get it and because of the crazy high prices they were asking and thought they could get (like a dream right), they're going to eat it for hoarding all these vintage synths. About 3 years ago, most vintage synths, definitely high end ones, were half the price of what they are now. So you can't tell me these synths are 'worth it' at double the price of 3 years ago.

The inflation can be attributed to internet hype and popularity. It's like it was a contest of some sort. Now I think people will realize how much better softsynths have become and that they can get these vintage synth sounds with alternative synths or equipment. Plus it allows for new material and sounds to be created instead. People should be more ambitious to try out other ways and synths for getting the sounds they want.
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