Staying with Roland jx8p or upgrading to Roland jx-10 ????

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Staying with Roland jx8p or upgrading to Roland jx-10 ????

Post by theundertakermc » Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:35 pm

I already have a Roland jx8p and i came accross a deal for a roland jx 10 .... is it worth ugrading ? is there a really big difference ?

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Re: Staying with Roland jx8p or upgrading to Roland jx-10 ????

Post by Strangenono » Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:58 pm

hi,
The jx10 is twice as powerful, I mean 2 jx8p layered or splitted giving acces to a new world of sound, listen to its presets at synthmania.com and you 'll see a peace of the jx10's potential.
The bad side is the midi part, very crappy . I' d upgrade especially if you are on a deal...

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Re: Staying with Roland jx8p or upgrading to Roland jx-10 ????

Post by theundertakermc » Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:08 pm

and can you remake the exact same sounds that on the jx8p ? i mean can it sounds 100 % the same ? or maybe should i keep the 2 of them ?

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Re: Staying with Roland jx8p or upgrading to Roland jx-10 ????

Post by iProg » Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:27 pm

I did the very same upgrade half a year ago. I don't regret it, especially not since I kept the PG-800 which works fine with both units. The sound is a lot better in the JX-10!

Programming can be a bit more tedious though, since 50 of the tones are uneditable and since the JX10 is 20+ years old it is rarely kept to presets so it can be frustrating to know what tone (half a patch) you can edit or not. You will find out, but I recommend you print the pdf manual availible online.

Good luck!

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Re: Staying with Roland jx8p or upgrading to Roland jx-10 ????

Post by theundertakermc » Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:36 pm

I just found a juno 106 wich i had before and sold it a long time ago , now i'm stuck between the two ...well the 3...


I already have a jx8p with the programmer....



now by your experience , should i upgrade to the jx 10 or go with the juno 106 .....Damn ...

if i had the cash i would buy the 2 of them , but i have to make a choice tonight ... i'm pretty confused ....over here i never find good synths usually ....

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Re: Staying with Roland jx8p or upgrading to Roland jx-10 ????

Post by th0mas » Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:03 pm

Definitely go for my juno 106 for $400 ;)

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Re: Staying with Roland jx8p or upgrading to Roland jx-10 ????

Post by Synthigraphie » Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:06 pm

Juno sound great but they are not reliable and are more limited about synthesis.

Roland JX-10 is a great synth for pads with 2 tones layered but attack is too slow to make snappy leads.
Keep your PG-800 and take the JX-10.

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Re: Staying with Roland jx8p or upgrading to Roland jx-10 ????

Post by rockmanrock » Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:07 am

In the Sound On Sound retro review, the reviewer said he swapped his JX8P for a JX10 then swapped back again.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1994_ar ... djx10.html

I think there's something to be said for keeping stuff simple.

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Re: Staying with Roland jx8p or upgrading to Roland jx-10 ????

Post by madtheory » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:30 am

I would keep the 8P. To transfer your patches to the JX10, you'd have to do it manually one at a time, because there's no sysex. IMO, a better upgrade would be an MKS-70. Then you could sell the 8P, or keep it and have the equivalent 3 of them, all with sysex! :)

The 106 is just duplication if you have the JX8P.

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Re: Staying with Roland jx8p or upgrading to Roland jx-10 ????

Post by Pro5 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:51 am

If I hadn't got a JX-8P then I'd snap up the JX-10.

It comes down to how much extra you will spend to get the 10 AND if you really want it's layering and extra keys.

I think the SuperJX looks pretty sexy (and Nick Rhodes had one which for me at least is a bonus ;) )

However I really like the 8P and it's nice to know a sound is a sound is a sound (like on the 3P). I'll keep all my layering/multi tones to the D-50/DX7II.

Seriously both are good and obvioulsy the SuperJX is more powerful and that bit more flexible. I like the simplicity of the 8P (and the decent midi support - the JX10 can be a bit strange I hear) but it's a personal choice.. there is no right or wrong. A JX10 doesn't automatically = 'better' to all people, only you can know if it is to you. Even the fact it's a longer board may actually be less desirable if space is limited.

I've also heard accounts of the JX10 not sounding quite the same as an 8P (in single voice mode of course, maybe cleaner but less warm?) maybe via diff op-amps. Of course there is bias here as an 8P owner but I'm trying to say there's pros and cons to both and neither are perfect. It does come down to you and the amount of cash it will take to do the 'upgrade' and if it's worth it and not actually a backwards step.

Start by asking yourself if you are 100% happy with the 8P? If not and if it's problems are solved by the JX10 then do the deal. If you are happy then think carefully.


oh and this quote from the sound on sound article:
it's impossible to dump the JX10's memory contents via SysEx. And as for accessing parameters in real time via MIDI controllers, forget it
Would put me off compared to the JX-8P which works ok, but that's because I don't have a PG-800 and HAVE to use a midi control box which works fine on the 8P but wouldn't on the 10. Also sysex dump is very useful to me even when I have carts (which I have for all my synths that take them).

As you have the PG-800 that's partly solved, and the rest may not even concern you. SuperJX is a beast and I'd like one someday but not while I own an 8P and I'm more than happy with the 8P (and 3P) right now, they have enough difference to work ok and earn their place.

I'll just quote from the SOS article again here, yes one man's opinion (well actually mine too as the same things would definitely annoy me)
MAN BITES SYNTH

A few years ago I was on the way to my local music shop, a Roland JX10 Super JX in tow, hoping that they hadn't sold my JX8P during the week I had struggled with its so-called superior stablemate. Essentially, the JX10 should be two JX8Ps in one keyboard (I can attest to the two JX8P circuit boards that were inside my machine). However, something went sadly wrong in the period between the design of the MIDI spec for the JX8P and the JX10...

On the JX8P, individual sound parameters can be adjusted by SysEx transmissions, something I rely on for 'on-the-fly' tweaking under sequencer control (like filter sweeps, for instance). The JX10 ignored all attempts to do the same. I later got hold of a MIDI implementation document and found that the facility had not been implemented!

I did manage to get the JX10 to transfer whole bank dumps. However, as I plugged in an M64C memory cartridge and began to explore the internal sequencer, the JX10 proceeded to spout MIDI clock signals -- continuously -- even during SysEx dumps, which now obviously failed! I managed to cure this by writing to the cartridge and unplugging it halfway through the operation in order to force a re-format -- I would not recommend this course of action to anyone else!

I began editing. There were sounds already present that I wanted to keep, and some that I was keen to add from my old faithful JX8P. I was aware that a JX10 patch consisted of a pair of Tones, called from a shared pool. Once edited, a Tone is altered in every patch that uses that Tone. After 20 minutes with a pen and paper my tolerance threshold was reached! I was horrified to see this tone-sharing system re-emerge on the Roland D70, and as for the Korg Wavestation...

My JX8P had been sold, but within a month I had it back. I was £150 poorer, but a little wiser. I've revisited the JX10 since these experiences, but have not changed my opinion. The cartridge/clock problems might well have been confined to my particular synth, but I still find the flawed MIDI implementation and the concept of shared tones (which should be punishable by law, in my opinion) to be very frustrating problems. How could Roland get it so wrong after the beautiful simplicity of the JX8P?

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Re: Staying with Roland jx8p or upgrading to Roland jx-10 ????

Post by madtheory » Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:21 am

Pro5 wrote: I've also heard accounts of the JX10 not sounding quite the same as an 8P (in single voice mode of course, maybe cleaner but less warm?)
Which is totally subjective, not scientific, and plain wrong. A JX 10 actually has two JX8P boards inside.

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Re: Staying with Roland jx8p or upgrading to Roland jx-10 ????

Post by Synthigraphie » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:20 am

The only thing I hate on the JX-10 is that f..... alpha-dial, very slow. I guess if JX-8P uses a slider it must be more comfortable. If you don't own a PG-800 it takes 10 minutes to make a sound on the JX-10 so in this case JX-8P may be more interesting.
But if you have a PG-800, there is no matter.

For a few $ you can change the ROM version and get Sysex on the JX-10 : http://www.colinfraser.com/jx10/jx.htm I made it but I don't need it at all because I only save patches on M-64C cards.
About the fact 8P sounds warmer it's a legend.
About the fact JX-10 is more sexy it's true ! :lol: Image

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Re: Staying with Roland jx8p or upgrading to Roland jx-10 ????

Post by Pro5 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:36 am

madtheory wrote:
Pro5 wrote: I've also heard accounts of the JX10 not sounding quite the same as an 8P (in single voice mode of course, maybe cleaner but less warm?)
Which is totally subjective, not scientific, and plain wrong. A JX 10 actually has two JX8P boards inside.
Yeah with different 'cleaner' op-amps on the outputs which I've already said - and yes we know it's 2 8P boards inside as also has been said :)

Now when you look at the respect for the D-50's dirty output (love it or loathe it does sound warm), the same could easily apply to the JX10 v JX-8p.

Either way that is the most MINOR issue in the whole 8p vs 10 debate and frankly the f**k up midi control and sysex nightmare are more important to me. Then the fact it's a bit too big for my room.

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Re: Staying with Roland jx8p or upgrading to Roland jx-10 ????

Post by Pro5 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:46 am

Synthigraphie wrote: About the fact 8P sounds warmer it's a legend.
To say it's a legend without disproving it is in itself a legend. As as I said above quite a minor point anyway, it's like saying a dx7 has a cleaner output to a moog or something. It was just a point by point difference highlighting for the original poster asking the question. I personally don't get caught up too much in what is 'really warm' vs minor differences (or I'd not be buying DCO synths in the first place). Again it's some users have reported this. There are some changes in the outputs in the jx10 'improved' unless everyone on the net who has stated this is flat out lying. :)

And I agree, the JX10 is sexy in sound and looks... the JX-8P is hardly a pig either (retains that impressive size depth and different non/black colouring) and while not as crisp looking it's fine.

I wouldn't get caught up on this in deciding, there are far more important matters to consider between the 2 synths inc pros and cons for both.

and to the OP>

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/sho ... ?t=2264081

another such thread (many on google)... most JX10 owners are happy, some say get the rack mount to avoid the midi probs. *ANECDOTAL* evidence suggests the MKS is 'cleaner' still than the JX10 due again to refinement in the output circuits.

Also in the thread, one or two favour the 8P's more direct nature (and some the 'sound' - which again I will use the word ANECDOTAL for) ;)

and starting from reply #23 onwards
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/sho ... stcount=23
And then there is this whole discussion about the quality of sound that differs from JX-8P to the Super-JX/MKS-70. Somehow - and that is what I read - the JX-8P seems to have more bite to it and sounds more fat in comparison (at least for the people that compared the two contenders). It also was mentioned that programming the JX-8P seems to be easier than fiddling with the Super-JX and/or the MKS-70.
The JX8P I had was much darker and fuller/lush sounding than my MKS-70.Don't know what chips it had.JD
Now whether this is myth, legend or users ears (or bias - even from people who own BOTH!?) the fact remains it is information that the original poster should be aware of before assuming that a JX-10 is 'exactly double' of a JX-8P in all ways. Not that it's differences are bad (I like clean outputs really).

finally:
Ok, the only comparison I found was here http://www.amazona.de/index.php?page...article_id=207

You need to understand german, but it pretty much said that two people compared the MKS-70 with the JX-8P and both ended up with the 8P and sold their rack! So much for comparison. Anybody in the New England area that has a MKS-70 and wants to compare it with my newly aquired JX-8P???

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Re: Staying with Roland jx8p or upgrading to Roland jx-10 ????

Post by madtheory » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:21 pm

Yes, anecdotal is a good word. I merely repeated the info because that is the nature of threads, some folk need to read it more than once ;)

So what's changed in the output cct. between 8P and 10? All that would be needed is a slightly different mixer for the voices. The number of voices shouldn't make any difference to the design of this mixer. I'll go check the schematics, it'd be intersting to see how Roland designers addressed the issue.

synthigraphie- are you Colin Fraser? That's pretty cool, adding sysex to the JX-10. :)

Isn't the MKS-70 also a dual 8P architecture? EDIT- it is. Wouldn't that be a better investment than a JX-10? Unless you want the sexy keyboard of course! :)

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