Steve needs a modular synth?

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Steve needs a modular synth?

Post by dzlvs8 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:07 pm

I am looking to start creating a small modular synthesizer but I am not sure if it is actually my best route to go for what I want. Basically I want to add some effects to my minimoog. I really miss the sample and hold from my Micromoog and would like to have a sample and hold module. I would also lke a ring modulator. I think a modular synth is my best option because, well, I would like to have a big modular synth someday. I also think this may be cheaper than buying two moogerfooger pedals.

So, my main question is, can I just plug the minimoog into a modular synth and still utilize all the features of my minimoog and can I get acheive a random filter sample and hold using the minimoogs filter and a generic sample and hold synth module. I wouldn't think so but??????

Next question: Can I plug a fender rhodes into the ring modulator synth module and get good results or do i need to have a control voltage from an oscilator or something going into the ring modulator.

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Re: Steve needs a modular synth?

Post by Z » Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:10 pm

How about some Moogerfoogers? You can get the MF-102 Ring Modulator and CP-251 for sample & hold along with other functions.

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Re: Steve needs a modular synth?

Post by dzlvs8 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:53 pm

Z wrote:How about some Moogerfoogers? You can get the MF-102 Ring Modulator and CP-251 for sample & hold along with other functions.
lol, did you read my post?

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Re: Steve needs a modular synth?

Post by space6oy » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:02 pm

granted they'd cost you $670 if you bought them new, but trust me, starting a modular you will rack up far, far more expense than that in no time. right off the bat, you'd have to buy or build a case/rack with power and bus board(s), the a114 ring module requires two signals (the MF-102 contains a VCO that acts as its second) so right there you're going to need at least three modules to have a functional ring mod and sample & hold, plus the moogerfoogers provide so much more.

it's a good suggestion, just depends on whether or not you're wanting to continue with the modular or if you're just wanting those two elements added to your minimoog.

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Re: Steve needs a modular synth?

Post by Phollop Willing PA » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:08 pm

dzlvs8 wrote:
Z wrote:How about some Moogerfoogers? You can get the MF-102 Ring Modulator and CP-251 for sample & hold along with other functions.
lol, did you read my post?
I did as well and was going to suggest at least the CP-251. Don't forget, some Moogerfoogers are modular building blocks and the CP-251 certainly is and has that s/h that you want.

As far as your main question goes - yes, but it depends on the modular and the building blocks. Therefore, the Moogerfoogers are a reasonable first choice to work with your Moog.

Yes, you can plug anything into the audio section of a Moogerfooger Ring Modulator Pedal and get good results. You don't need a CV contoller, unless you wish to modify it while playing and I think the Mini Moog will do that.
dzlvs8 wrote:I am looking to start creating a small modular synthesizer but I am not sure if it is actually my best route to go for what I want. Basically I want to add some effects to my minimoog. I really miss the sample and hold from my Micromoog and would like to have a sample and hold module. I would also lke a ring modulator. I think a modular synth is my best option because, well, I would like to have a big modular synth someday. I also think this may be cheaper than buying two moogerfooger pedals.

So, my main question is, can I just plug the minimoog into a modular synth and still utilize all the features of my minimoog and can I get acheive a random filter sample and hold using the minimoogs filter and a generic sample and hold synth module. I wouldn't think so but??????

Next question: Can I plug a fender rhodes into the ring modulator synth module and get good results or do i need to have a control voltage from an oscilator or something going into the ring modulator.
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Re: Steve needs a modular synth?

Post by dzlvs8 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:19 pm

there must have been something confusing about what I wrote. I know what two moogerfoogers I would need. The problem is, it costs $600 for both pedals. I would rather spend that money on getting the effects by building or buying modular synth components.

So, can I use the ring modulation affect of a synth module for a fender rhodes and expect good results or doi need a control voltage.

I am thinking the modular is the way to go because I want to eventually have a modular synth and going that route for these ttwo affects...and maybe a few more would actually be cheaper.

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Re: Steve needs a modular synth?

Post by Phollop Willing PA » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:38 pm

A Mooger Fooger CP 251, is not a pedal, but a module and I have one for sale for $420 CDN.

from EM

"Big Briar Moogerfooger CP-251 Review

"Moogerfooger CP-251 Control Processor Thanks to their voltage control-capabilities, the effects of Big Briar's Moogerfooger line blur the distinction between traditional floor-bound stomp boxes and analog synthesizer modules. In an attempt to mold the product line into a full-fledged modular synth system, Big Briar has introduced the Moogerfooger CP-251 Control Processor ($499)*.

"As the name suggests, the CP-251 works with control voltages rather than audio signals, and Big Briar cleverly housed eight independent control processors in one small box. The processors include a mixer, lag processor, voltage-controllable LFO, noise generator, sample and hold, two attenuators, and a four-way multiple. Together, these features provide a useful tool kit for creating complex patches between Moogerfooger products, analog synths, and any other device that uses control voltages.

"Due Process The CP-251, measuring 5.25 inches tall and 9.5 inches wide, is slightly larger than a VHS video cassette, and you can place it in a rack-mount unit by removing the wooden sides. The CP-251 uses a +9V wall wart and includes two power inputs - one on the side, for use when the CP-251 is on a table, and one on the bottom, for use when the unit is rack-mounted.

"The CP-251's 1/4-inch jacks accept 2-conductor (TS) or 3-conductor (TRS) plugs. The eight red-ringed input jacks are active and used for powering expression pedals, such as the Moogerfooger EP-1. The four-input mixer, for example, has two active pedal inputs, individual level controls for inputs one and two, and a master level control. In addition, you can add or subtract as much as five volts from the mixed signal by using the Offset control. The mixer has two outputs; the signal of the second output is the inverse of the first. You can create simultaneous melodic patterns in contrary motion by using both outputs with a pair of voltage-controlled oscillators (VCOs).

"The Lag Processor offers independent control over a signal's rise and fall time. You can use this to add portamento between notes or to reshape a square-wave input into sawtooth and sine waves.

"Two of the CP-251's sections - LFO and Noise - produce audio-rate signals. Noise is available from a single output jack. The LFO features an active input and has dedicated triangle- and square-wave outputs. The LFO frequency range is from 0.2 to 50 Hz, but it can be extended to 0.02 and 100 Hz using a control voltage.

"The CP-251's Sample-and-Hold circuit features two active CV inputs. Nevertheless, the Noise module is conveniently normalled to the voltage input, and the LFO square-wave is normalled to the trigger input, which lets you use the Sample and Hold without patch cords. When used in this configuration to control a VCO, Sample and Hold provides a steady stream of randomized pitches, with the tempo controlled by the LFO's frequency.

"Like the Mixer, Sample and Hold has two outputs. The first is the direct output of the sampled voltage. Before the signal reaches the second output, however, a lowpass filter smooths the signal's contour. The LFO Rate knob determines the degree of smoothing by controlling the lowpass filter's cutoff frequency.

"The remaining processors - two attenuators and a four-way multiple - may seem boring compared with the other processors, but they are just as useful. The attenuators are great for quantifying the level of a control signal, such as an expression pedal's voltage range. Each attenuator has an input, an output, and a control for varying the signal level.

"The Four-Way Multiple creates up to three copies of an input signal and works with both voltage and audio signals. The Multiple includes an active input, so you can send the signal from an expression pedal to as many as three destinations.

"One with Everything The CP-251's manual is highly informative. It includes a basic tutorial about the use of voltages for control, an explanation of each of the CP-251's processors, and sample patches for using the CP-251 with other Moogerfooger products.

"Although the Big Briar CP-251 is priced in line with most single-process analog-synthesizer modules, it's a true bargain when you consider the amount of processing power it gives you. The CP-251 is an essential purchase for any serious user of voltage-controllable gear."

Image
dzlvs8 wrote:....

So, can I use the ring modulation affect of a synth module for a fender rhodes and expect good results or doi need a control voltage.

....
On an ARP 2600 or a MacBeth M5, the answer is yes but you don't need CV. There are other synths too, like the Vostox, that'll do it, but as you probably know, the Mooger Fooger Ring Modulator is not only a stand alone pedal, but will also interact with other Moogerfoogers and analogue synths via CVs.

Image

This is the back. They cost around $400 new.

*edited typo in quote.
Last edited by Phollop Willing PA on Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Steve needs a modular synth?

Post by space6oy » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:38 pm

a ring mod module will not do anything to your rhodes' signal by itself.

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Re: Steve needs a modular synth?

Post by Z » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:40 pm

Like space6oy said, you're going to spend about the same or more on modules and such: cabinet, power supply, oscillator, ring mod, s&h.
$600-$700 on 'Foogers will get you more than just ring mod and S&H. But if you're planning to build a modular anyway, you can sink $600 into the above mentioned modules to get your basic wants.

I suggested the two 'Foogers as a quick and realatively inexpensive solution for your wants. The 'Foogers can easily be integrated into a modular system as well.

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Re: Steve needs a modular synth?

Post by dzlvs8 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:40 am

Jesus Christ, I know how its going to cost a lot to build a synth module. But since I will have one eventually someday, I might as well drop $600 on a module now. Instead of spending almost $700 on some frickin guitar pedals. I dont want any guitar pedals. I want a modular synth. I am just wondering what I can use it for. i.e. the Rhodes, minimoog.

Thanks for the info about not being able to use it with my rhodes.

But please, stop posting sh!t about moogerfoogers. lol I know which two pedals I would need. I know what the CP-251 is very well. The one auction on ebay is being sold buy a guy that I have had countless conversations with trying to get him to sell it to me for less. To me the CP-251 is a cheezy patch bay with sweet sample and hold and a few other features that I have absolutely no use for.

So anyway, I guess I am now looking to get a modular synth going for sample and hold. Eventually I will want a sequencer. Thats my ultimate goal.

Does anyone know of any other hardware that can sequence a minimoog or will allow me to do random filter sample and hold of my minimoog? It has to be cheaper than a micromoog or not similar to my minimoog tonally, or else I would have just kept my micromoog in the first place.

Basically, is there any analog synth or something that I can use as a sequencer or sample and hold for my minimoog. I used to have a SCI Pro One but I didn't like that thing for some reason. Im wondering if I can expand my synth collection and sound in a different way than building a modular but still getting the features I want for my minimoog.

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Re: Steve needs a modular synth?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:22 am

People are only suggesting the foogers because you asked if a modular was the best way to do what you want, and the foogers are the easiest and cheapest way to do it, and can be fully integrated into a modular later on. (I use my MF-104Z with my modular via the CV ins all the time) The Moogerfoogers are a small modular system, they're just packaged like guitar pedals to appeal to a bigger market.

Anyway, you've said you don't want foogers. Here's what you'd need instead.

MW Modularworld case and power supply
Doepfer Ring Mod
Doepfer Oscillator to use with the Ring Mod
Doepfer Noise Module to feed random voltages to the SH
Doepfer Sample and Hold Module
Doepfer basic LFO to clock the SH module

It would cost more than $600 but would give you room to expand later on, and like the foogers can be repatched to perform different functions later on.

Re: Sequencers, do you want an analogue style sequencer or step input type one like the Pro-One? I really like the Makenoise Pressure Points and Brains as an analogue sequencer, but it won't work the same as the Pro One and you also need an oscillator or clock module to make it run. It also goes even better with a Doepfer switch module, can't remember exactly which one I use and not in the same country as my modular at the moment to check sorry.

Re: you question about the tonality of the Minimoog, the sample and hold module is just generating a voltage to change the filter cutoff of the mini. It's no different to if you could move the cutoff knob that quickly with your hand, so tonally will be the same as the Mini because it's still the mini making the sound.

I'm assuming the mini has CV inputs for cutoff, pitch and gate, hence your question. I've never actually used one so don't know for sure.

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Re: Steve needs a modular synth?

Post by dzlvs8 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:57 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:People are only suggesting the foogers because you asked if a modular was the best way to do what you want, and the foogers are the easiest and cheapest way to do it, and can be fully integrated into a modular later on. (I use my MF-104Z with my modular via the CV ins all the time) The Moogerfoogers are a small modular system, they're just packaged like guitar pedals to appeal to a bigger market.

Anyway, you've said you don't want foogers. Here's what you'd need instead.

MW Modularworld case and power supply
Doepfer Ring Mod
Doepfer Oscillator to use with the Ring Mod
Doepfer Noise Module to feed random voltages to the SH
Doepfer Sample and Hold Module
Doepfer basic LFO to clock the SH module

It would cost more than $600 but would give you room to expand later on, and like the foogers can be repatched to perform different functions later on.

Re: Sequencers, do you want an analogue style sequencer or step input type one like the Pro-One? I really like the Makenoise Pressure Points and Brains as an analogue sequencer, but it won't work the same as the Pro One and you also need an oscillator or clock module to make it run. It also goes even better with a Doepfer switch module, can't remember exactly which one I use and not in the same country as my modular at the moment to check sorry.

Re: you question about the tonality of the Minimoog, the sample and hold module is just generating a voltage to change the filter cutoff of the mini. It's no different to if you could move the cutoff knob that quickly with your hand, so tonally will be the same as the Mini because it's still the mini making the sound.

I'm assuming the mini has CV inputs for cutoff, pitch and gate, hence your question. I've never actually used one so don't know for sure.
Thanks for the info, I just would rather deal with a modular than have to be looking at the back of some of those pedals in order to see where to plug c**p in. Plus, me like modular. They look cool.

Whats with the doepfer stuff. Is it just simpler because of the ribbon cable connectors or something. Ive been checkin out all the other sites that have modular stuff and DIY modulars and I really like the classic black faceplate stuff better. ....a whole lot better.

So why are the doepfers the most popular ones. I like the basic yusynth style stuff and the PAiA stuff. I havent looked through them all yet though. But I dont dig the plain aluminum panels. Why doepfer

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Re: Steve needs a modular synth?

Post by space6oy » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:59 am

doepfer modules are eurorack. the black faceplate ones you're seeing are most likely fracrack. they're just different system types, the euro modules are smaller and hence take up less space. plus there are more euro modules out there than any other format.

http://analoguehaven.com

start shoppin'.

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Re: Steve needs a modular synth?

Post by dzlvs8 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:17 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:
Re: Sequencers, do you want an analogue style sequencer or step input type one like the Pro-One? I really like the Makenoise Pressure Points and Brains as an analogue sequencer, but it won't work the same as the Pro One and you also need an oscillator or clock module to make it run. It also goes even better with a Doepfer switch module, can't remember exactly which one I use and not in the same country as my modular at the moment to check sorry.

Re: you question about the tonality of the Minimoog, the sample and hold module is just generating a voltage to change the filter cutoff of the mini. It's no different to if you could move the cutoff knob that quickly with your hand, so tonally will be the same as the Mini because it's still the mini making the sound.

I'm assuming the mini has CV inputs for cutoff, pitch and gate, hence your question. I've never actually used one so don't know for sure.
I hated the step sequencer of the pro one. I would like a real sequencer. Thanks for the pointers. I youtubed the pressure points thing. Looks freakin unnecessarily expensive. lol

In regards to the sample and hold OOHHHHHHH, now i get it. It was really confusing me before. Thanks.

In regards to the minimoog inputs: there is an external control input for oscilator and filter and an s-trigger port, but I can get a CV to s trigger cable.



With how you've enlitened me about how many of the modules would actually control the minimoog I am finally understanding how you can change the pitch of a note with an analog sequencer, Thanks.



Doepfers, smaller. That sounds like a bad thing. I want a big a*s modular. Any suggestions on a good fracrack style modular to go with? I may end up building some of the modules myself but not all of them. I also probably want to build the case, because i am good with wood and the wood cases online are frickin expensive.

So, any pointers on starters for getting a sample and hold running as a modular in the fracrack? Like, a good cheap prebuilt power supply and internal cabinet hardware? modules?

I'll worry about the ring modulator later because I have no idea what type of modular oscillator I will ever want. NOTE: I want something with the old school knobs. (like a mini's knobs). I have almost 10 grand in gear and the newest piece of equipment is from 1974. I dont want any of the newer styled modulars.

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Re: Steve needs a modular synth?

Post by space6oy » Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:21 am

nope. i'm all euro. stabby is too.

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