EURORACK - getting started

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druzz
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EURORACK - getting started

Post by druzz » Sat May 14, 2011 12:51 pm

i am planning to jump in the eurorack madness very soon

i am currently looking for diy case solutions ( were to buy rails and power supply ) . also interrested in nice prebuilt cases if i can find a good deal but as a second option cause my budget is tigth .

here is the list of modules i am thinking of getting :

livewire's Aaudio frequency generator
make noise's maths & wogglebug
bubblesounds ulfo

these 4 are the modules that makes me drool

then i have to add at least some generic stuff . i have found

doepfer's dual linear\exponetial VCA
mfb's dual enveloppe generator


as for the filters i am not completely decided but i have a lead on a used doepfer wasp filter
and i plan to build a yusynth steiner filter http://yusynth.net/Modular/EN/STEINERVCF/index.html
( also plan on using my mooger fooger lowpass and cs-5 filters)
any suggestion for crazy filters ??


also plan to build 4ms 's atoner and noise swash and maybe the plague bearer from F(h)

so what do you guys think about this setup plan ? any sugestions or remarks?

i cant tell if i need a mixer at this point .

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Re: EURORACK - getting started

Post by space6oy » Sat May 14, 2011 10:21 pm

a mixer wouldn't hurt if you want to use more than one signal out from the AFG.
i have a uLFO but my favorites are the MFB dual LFO and the vulcan.
filters... the harvestman polivoks is awesome for the price. might want to start w/ a multimode though, like a malekko borg 1 or 2 or a division 6 filtare SEIII. i haven't had a wasp but i've had an a106 and didn't care for it at all...

what you've already mentioned is plenty for a very interesting start.

except for the a132-3, you should buy one of my MFB VCA's instead. ;)

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Re: EURORACK - getting started

Post by Stab Frenzy » Sun May 15, 2011 8:03 am

druzz wrote:i am planning to jump in the eurorack madness very soon ... my budget is tigth .
Think of the amount of money you think you're going to spend. Now double it. Now double it again. That's the minimum amount you're going to spend on this, are you OK with that? If not, probably best not to even start. ;)
druzz wrote:i am currently looking for diy case solutions ( were to buy rails and power supply ) . also interrested in nice prebuilt cases if i can find a good deal but as a second option cause my budget is tigth .
Check out the new(ish) Tiptop Happy Ending dealio, it seems to be the cheapest way to get started at the moment. When I started mine a year and a bit ago the MW Modularworld case was the cheapest, and still is if you want something giggable. Worth a look as well, I'm pretty happy with mine even though the finish isn't really super high quality, more of a good DIY kind of thing.
druzz wrote:here is the list of modules i am thinking of getting :

livewire's Aaudio frequency generator
make noise's maths & wogglebug
bubblesounds ulfo

these 4 are the modules that makes me drool
The AFG is a pretty expensive module for someone on a budget, I know a lot of people on Muffwiggler have sold theirs and replaced them with a uLFO and been pretty happy with the saving in space and cost. Maths is cool and useful for a million things, but for stuff like an ADSR it's overkill as it uses the whole unit. I'm pretty happy with mine though. uLFO is good, I'd go with that for sure. Maybe get two, one for audio and one for CV, and ditch the AFG. Wogglebug; does anyone even really understand whet it does? I know some people just use it like a clock and a random voltage which is cool if you want those things, I suppose that's pretty much what I use my Noisering for. I'm not sure that the WB would be the best use of a limited budget for someone just starting out though.
druzz wrote:then i have to add at least some generic stuff . i have found

doepfer's dual linear\exponetial VCA
mfb's dual enveloppe generator
The dual VCA (A-132-3) is pretty good, I have two of them. Keep in mind that you need VCAs for controlling things like modulation amounts as well as using as an audio VCA and you realise that just having two VCAs isn't enough. The intellijel Hex VCA might be a good way of covering all your VCA needs in one unit for a start, it's a lower price per VCA than the doepfer (<$50/VCA vs. $70/VCA) and smaller which uses less case which allows you more modules without having to fork out for more case space.
druzz wrote:as for the filters i am not completely decided but i have a lead on a used doepfer wasp filter
and i plan to build a yusynth steiner filter http://yusynth.net/Modular/EN/STEINERVCF/index.html
( also plan on using my mooger fooger lowpass and cs-5 filters)
any suggestion for crazy filters ??
I really like the Z2040, it's a great filter. Wouldn't describe it as 'crazy' though. My Elby Synthacon would best be described as crazy I think. Bubblesound SEM-20 is somewhere in the middle, I'm happy with all three.
druzz wrote:also plan to build 4ms 's atoner and noise swash and maybe the plague bearer from F(h)
Haven't used any of those so can't really comment. You seem to be going for a lot of really esoteric modules though and not getting any basic ones, you need all those basic ones to make the system work as a whole.
druzz wrote:so what do you guys think about this setup plan ? any sugestions or remarks?

i cant tell if i need a mixer at this point .
Dude, you need mixers. Mixers are awesome, think about every time you mix two things together when you're using a hardwired synth, you need a mixer for each time you do this. You want two oscs to go to the same filter? You need a mixer for that. You want to modulate a filter with an LFO as well as an envelope? You need a mixer for that. You want to split two waveforms out from an osc, run them through parallel processing? You need a mixer for that. You want to add a little bit of plague bearer to your signal? Mixer again. Mixers and VCAs make the world go round. Some mixers (like my .MIX) have a really nice colour to them that warms the signal up. A bipolar mixer can turn a LPF into a HPF.

Anyway, you're gonna get a whole lot more opinions and suggestions to listen to at Muffwiggler than here, go there and read a bunch of threads and see what they've said to people in your position. And don't forget how important VCAs and mixers are. :D

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Re: EURORACK - getting started

Post by shaft9000 » Sun May 15, 2011 4:04 pm

druzz wrote: any suggestion for crazy filters ??
A-124 and Wasp and Polivoks are two of the wildest. I don't have them though. I do have a pair of Borg2s, a pair of R54 bandpassers, an R52multimode, A-105 SSM filter, SEM20multimode, Cwejman RES-4 and Elby Synthacon.
I'd say the R54 is 'craziest' - most unpredictable and producing odd artifacts. From chicken-clucks to throaty tearing wooly-mammoth groans to screeching w***e-hammer-hellhounds. :twisted:
But the R54 'cheats' a bit as it is also a VCO and waveshaper...which brings me to:

I suggest you look into getting a waveshaper (or two) and abandon the usual 'filters do crazy' notion. :mrgreen:
We get this notion from throwing our fixed-path synth filters into self-oscillation to get there. A modular has much much more latitude in this regard.
Doepfer A-137 or WMD geiger can do much more than most any filter when it comes to extra harmonics. Filters only go so far; waveshapers are more controllable and are made for this while filters are designed for...well, filtering. And making nice sine waves :)
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Re: EURORACK - getting started

Post by pricklyrobot » Sun May 15, 2011 4:16 pm

Stab Frenzy wrote:Check out the new(ish) Tiptop Happy Ending dealio, it seems to be the cheapest way to get started at the moment.
FYI if you're in the US, the Happy Ending has been out of stock at Analogue Haven for at least the past month, but it looks like they have all of the component parts of it available separately for only about $10 more.
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Re: EURORACK - getting started

Post by druzz » Mon May 16, 2011 8:25 pm

space6oy wrote:a mixer wouldn't hurt if you want to use more than one signal out from the AFG.
i have a uLFO but my favorites are the MFB dual LFO and the vulcan.
filters... the harvestman polivoks is awesome for the price. might want to start w/ a multimode though, like a malekko borg 1 or 2 or a division 6 filtare SEIII. i haven't had a wasp but i've had an a106 and didn't care for it at all...

what you've already mentioned is plenty for a very interesting start.

except for the a132-3, you should buy one of my MFB VCA's instead. ;)
the filtare SEIII looks interresting , i like it when you have a CV in for resonance . i feel its a feature that is too often left out . but i fear it would be close in timbre to my mono\poly filter altough the mono\poly is not multi mode or modular.
Stab Frenzy wrote:
druzz wrote:i am planning to jump in the eurorack madness very soon ... my budget is tigth .
Think of the amount of money you think you're going to spend. Now double it. Now double it again. That's the minimum amount you're going to spend on this, are you OK with that? If not, probably best not to even start. ;)
druzz wrote:i am currently looking for diy case solutions ( were to buy rails and power supply ) . also interrested in nice prebuilt cases if i can find a good deal but as a second option cause my budget is tigth .
Check out the new(ish) Tiptop Happy Ending dealio, it seems to be the cheapest way to get started at the moment. When I started mine a year and a bit ago the MW Modularworld case was the cheapest, and still is if you want something giggable. Worth a look as well, I'm pretty happy with mine even though the finish isn't really super high quality, more of a good DIY kind of thing.
druzz wrote:here is the list of modules i am thinking of getting :

livewire's Aaudio frequency generator
make noise's maths & wogglebug
bubblesounds ulfo

these 4 are the modules that makes me drool
The AFG is a pretty expensive module for someone on a budget, I know a lot of people on Muffwiggler have sold theirs and replaced them with a uLFO and been pretty happy with the saving in space and cost. Maths is cool and useful for a million things, but for stuff like an ADSR it's overkill as it uses the whole unit. I'm pretty happy with mine though. uLFO is good, I'd go with that for sure. Maybe get two, one for audio and one for CV, and ditch the AFG. Wogglebug; does anyone even really understand whet it does? I know some people just use it like a clock and a random voltage which is cool if you want those things, I suppose that's pretty much what I use my Noisering for. I'm not sure that the WB would be the best use of a limited budget for someone just starting out though.



druzz wrote:then i have to add at least some generic stuff . i have found

doepfer's dual linear\exponetial VCA
mfb's dual enveloppe generator
The dual VCA (A-132-3) is pretty good, I have two of them. Keep in mind that you need VCAs for controlling things like modulation amounts as well as using as an audio VCA and you realise that just having two VCAs isn't enough. The intellijel Hex VCA might be a good way of covering all your VCA needs in one unit for a start, it's a lower price per VCA than the doepfer (<$50/VCA vs. $70/VCA) and smaller which uses less case which allows you more modules without having to fork out for more case space.
druzz wrote:as for the filters i am not completely decided but i have a lead on a used doepfer wasp filter
and i plan to build a yusynth steiner filter http://yusynth.net/Modular/EN/STEINERVCF/index.html
( also plan on using my mooger fooger lowpass and cs-5 filters)
any suggestion for crazy filters ??
I really like the Z2040, it's a great filter. Wouldn't describe it as 'crazy' though. My Elby Synthacon would best be described as crazy I think. Bubblesound SEM-20 is somewhere in the middle, I'm happy with all three.
druzz wrote:also plan to build 4ms 's atoner and noise swash and maybe the plague bearer from F(h)
Haven't used any of those so can't really comment. You seem to be going for a lot of really esoteric modules though and not getting any basic ones, you need all those basic ones to make the system work as a whole.
druzz wrote:so what do you guys think about this setup plan ? any sugestions or remarks?

i cant tell if i need a mixer at this point .
Dude, you need mixers. Mixers are awesome, think about every time you mix two things together when you're using a hardwired synth, you need a mixer for each time you do this. You want two oscs to go to the same filter? You need a mixer for that. You want to modulate a filter with an LFO as well as an envelope? You need a mixer for that. You want to split two waveforms out from an osc, run them through parallel processing? You need a mixer for that. You want to add a little bit of plague bearer to your signal? Mixer again. Mixers and VCAs make the world go round. Some mixers (like my .MIX) have a really nice colour to them that warms the signal up. A bipolar mixer can turn a LPF into a HPF.

Anyway, you're gonna get a whole lot more opinions and suggestions to listen to at Muffwiggler than here, go there and read a bunch of threads and see what they've said to people in your position. And don't forget how important VCAs and mixers are. :D

well to be honest i am not totally ok with spending 6-8 k on yet more synthesis gear rigth now . i was cured of GAS, happy with my setup ... but i went to berlin visited schneider laden and there is no way back now (i mean from eurorack not from berlin) . now i get frustrated on my monopoly cause i cant modulate the lfo speed and stuff like that ...

i know i have to cut back a bit on the esoteric modules that generates modulation but they are the most attractive ones for me, maybe i'll put the woogle bug aside for the moment and stick with the Maths .

the AFG is calling my name but a lot of people are trying to convince me its not a good module to start with. i havent spoted another osc yet that attract me as much so i am open for suggestion ( z3000 ...)what i like about it is all the shaping options the unsusual waveforms , all the inputs and outputs . as for the ulfo i plan on getting one but is it really usable as an osc. in a satisfying way ??

VCA's , the hex vca look nice , i really like intellijel designs. but will i also need vca'S with linear response or can i use those exp. vca for everything ? the mutagene seems like a sweet little mixer perfect for a small setup too

that tip top filter is tempting , i like the features and the price

shaft9000 wrote:
druzz wrote: any suggestion for crazy filters ??
A-124 and Wasp and Polivoks are two of the wildest. I don't have them though. I do have a pair of Borg2s, a pair of R54 bandpassers, an R52multimode, A-105 SSM filter, SEM20multimode, Cwejman RES-4 and Elby Synthacon.
I'd say the R54 is 'craziest' - most unpredictable and producing odd artifacts. From chicken-clucks to throaty tearing wooly-mammoth groans to screeching w***e-hammer-hellhounds. :twisted:
But the R54 'cheats' a bit as it is also a VCO and waveshaper...which brings me to:

I suggest you look into getting a waveshaper (or two) and abandon the usual 'filters do crazy' notion. :mrgreen:
We get this notion from throwing our fixed-path synth filters into self-oscillation to get there. A modular has much much more latitude in this regard.
Doepfer A-137 or WMD geiger can do much more than most any filter when it comes to extra harmonics. Filters only go so far; waveshapers are more controllable and are made for this while filters are designed for...well, filtering. And making nice sine waves :)

i said crazy filters but what i meant was more : filters that lets you go crazy with all their features and control inputs
although a crazy filter is also a nice thing to have ;)

you got my attention here i'll be off scanning all the waveshapers on the analog haven website

---------------------------------

thanks guys for your help, i'll be checking out every single modules you mentioned in my obsessive web sessions were tabs keeps on adding and adding endlessly in my browser . and i will pay specific attention to mixers, vca's and waveshapers :D

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